Career Growth Advice from Anne Shoemaker, Career Development Leader | Career Tips for Women in Career Development

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 108
Featuring Anne Shoemaker

Episode Title: #108 Authentic Ambition: Anne Shoemaker on Coaching Women to Top Leadership Roles

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Anne Shoemaker



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Thank you for tuning in. Today's show features a woman who's went from being a professional athlete to equipping women with the tools they need to unlock their potential and achieve new levels of impact and fulfillment. Anne Shoemaker is a career strategist and executive coach, leveraging her 20 plus years of experience to guide executives and aspiring executive women to leadership roles across various industries.

She is the founder of WBENC, Certified Women Business Enterprise, and holds a business degree from Wake Forest University along with a graduate degree in e-commerce from Lu Li University of Technology in Sweden. Anne has a distinguished portfolio of clients including CXOs, legislatures, entrepreneurs, and professionals from Fortune 500 companies like Home Depot and Dell Technologies, as well as healthcare leaders from Duke Health and senior administrators from top ranked academic institutions. Anne, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you joining the show.

Anne Shoemaker (Guest): Thank you for having me.

Mary Killelea: Okay. So, everyone wants to know what is your background? Why did you choose to start this leadership coaching program when once you were a professional athlete? Fill in the gaps for us.

Anne Shoemaker: Yes. Yes. So let's see. I played collegiate soccer at Wake Forest University and played professional soccer in Sweden. And when I knew that that career was over, I had a chance to work for some really amazing kind of sponsors, mentors, managers, the first 10 years of my career, and kind of took for granted that that may be the way that it always was. And maybe it's naivete. And so when I moved into a different role, different organization, and experienced what poor leadership looks like, I really realized how good I had it at the onset of my career. So as that kind of employment arrangement was kind of winding down, and I knew that I needed to get out and do other things, I did a lot of soul searching and thought, you know, really, it was really important to me that my next step be in something that I was very passionate about, because I had experienced, an environment that was certainly devoid of that.

So, I knew that supporting and elevating women was something that if you looked at the books on my nightstand, if you looked at the podcast I was listening to, the movies I was watching, it was very evident that I was passionate about and interested in the stories and kind of trajectories of women. And I've always just been really interested in career. It's kind of sports, you know, has a goal, and you work with the team to accomplish that goal. And business, I think, is just so similar. So, it's a similar interest of mine. And so, I've put the two together. And that's where the interest in, I guess, the work that I do with women has come together.

Mary Killelea: So as a professional athlete, obviously, it requires so much self discipline, self drive, resilience. How have those skills helped you with developing your own business?

Anne Shoemaker: Yes. They have, it's funny that you mentioned that because just today, I was reminding myself that when I am disciplined about certain behaviors, such as like a morning meditation or a five minute journal, it changes the rest of my day. And I've looked at my journal this morning, set the timer for five minutes and realized that yesterday I had skipped it. And as I as I realized I was like yesterday, I was just kind of a little frantic and a little irritable. So anyway, it's a reminder, you know, working as a self-employed entrepreneur, who has to there's certain tasks that we have to get done, even if we don't like to do them. It reminds me so much of, you know, step stepping onto the line, and everybody on the team has to do sprints, and none of us want to do it. But we know it's going to make us better. And that's what you know, entrepreneurship has so many benefits and joys as a part of it. But there's also just drudgery stuff that you've got to get through just like anything else. And so yes, my athletic background has definitely been beneficial, especially when I slip up like I did yesterday.

Mary Killelea: So, I've never had an athlete, a professional athlete on the show before. So, if I know, we want to talk about your current day, but I also want to ask you because I'm curious, and I'm sure the listeners are curious, what was it like being a professional athlete? I mean, I know it's a job. So how do you how do you take your passion and a job once was for fun at some point, now you're like a business?

Anne Shoemaker: Yes. And I only did it for a very brief amount of time. So there's probably other people who would have different perspectives. But I mean, I think there's an opportunity to speak about the difference between being a professional athlete as a woman as a man. I was actually living in Sweden with the man who is now my husband at the time we were dating, and he was playing professional basketball. And it was just kind of funny because we would go out in this small town in Sweden and people would just fawn all over him and want to take pictures and you know, autographs and things like that. And I was just kind of over there, you know, on the side. And that's that kind of can be a metaphor for the experience as well. I mean, we were traveling on buses and nothing that glamorous compared to the way maybe some others were treated. So it was good, but it was also a job as you said, as you said, and it was not necessarily as glamorous as we like to think of things like that.

Mary Killelea: Well, and I think that's great to hear from you, because I think people do have a perception of things and the glamour and what they see on TV, and they might aspire to be that as a younger woman. But the reality is, it's hard work and it's not as glamorous. So what is, you know, your long term career aspirations beyond your goal of being an athlete?

Anne Shoemaker: Absolutely. And it's so important to keep that in mind. And we can lose sight of that when we find something that we're really passionate about. And that's just life, right? But it's always nice to have. I like to think of it as a train tracks, like what's the parallel track, you know, for focusing a lot of time and energy on this one thing. What if, you know, you get injured or the team folds or, you know, you lose your job or whatever. What's that? What is that thing that you're going to fall back on? So I know as a mom now, I'm always trying to think about messages and lessons learned. And it's kind of like, it's always nice to have a little something on the side, just in case.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely. I am sure that each of us women have some level of self-doubt. Have you experienced self-doubt in your transitioning from, you know, just taking on your business and even the maintaining your business and taking on clients? What are the things you do to overcome self-doubt and the negative voices that creep into our minds?

Anne Shoemaker: Absolutely. And today is a perfect example of that. In fact, as part of the reason that I was doing the journaling this morning and reminded myself that I needed to have that discipline because I'm a coach and I'm also certified as a group coach. And while I have had some groups in the past, I hadn't had as structured and as professional a group as I have now. And so, I have a contract with a company and I'm working with many of their leaders. And today was our first group session. And I found myself just spiraling in the morning before the actual session. I just was like, what is it going to take for me to get out of my head because I can't serve the clients if I'm in here. I need to be more of kind of a container for their conversation and it doesn't need to be about me.

So that is what brought me back to writing down in this journal, just I set a timer for five minutes. I put white noise in my ears and it's the first thing that I mean on most days. I try to make it the first thing I do in the day before all of the to-do start happening. And I'll let myself just kind of stream of consciousness, right? But when I'm having self-doubt, a lot of times it's very simple mantras like I'm enough and even like I am safe because when our nervous system is activated, you know, something is telling us that there's danger nearby. And what I'm doing is sitting on a Zoom with 10 other very delightful humans. There really is no danger. But the way that my body was reacting was I need to over prepare and really, you know, it's like, no, I just need to show up and facilitate this conversation. So, I try to slow it down by having that time, writing it out, writing out some mantras and reminding myself that I'm safe and trying to make sure that my brain tells my body it's okay, we can do this.

Mary Killelea: That's fantastic advice. So, what would be any other tips that you might give clients for similar situations like that? Because I think that self-awareness that you describe is so important and you help women achieve that self-awareness when they can't do it for themselves. What other things do you see your clients struggling with?

Anne Shoemaker: One thing is, you know, imposter syndrome, which I think is kind of, you know, sister maybe of what you're what you're asking about or speaking about. And so the exercise that I love to have clients do is to just draw a vertical line down a piece of paper. And on the left hand side, write the word facts. And on the right hand side, write the word FUD, you know, fear, uncertainty and doubt. And sometimes we just have to see it in black and white to believe it that.

A woman told me she gave this example of sitting, you know, in an interview, or before an interview, she's in like a waiting room, and seeing the person come out who was being interviewed beforehand. And she said, Oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh, like she's dynamite, what am I doing here? And she found herself looking at her LinkedIn profile, her herself, her own LinkedIn profile. And what she was doing was reminding herself of the facts. She has gone to school, she has studied, she has earned, you know, her degrees, she has this experience or whatever. So, she was counteracting that fear of being less than this other candidate with the actual facts. And if we can do that, you know, for me this morning, it may have been like they've hired me as a coach, I've met with all of these people, we have a contract, I have a certification, I have hours of experience, etc. So, reminding clients to get in touch with the actual facts of the situation. And a lot of what's what we allow to take up the real estate in our brain is just beliefs, and they're limiting beliefs. So, we just need to understand that's not factual, that's just a narrative that we're allowing to play in our head.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. What do you think makes you a unique coach?

Anne Shoemaker: Hmm. I think one thing that makes me unique is that it's really important to me that the client get in touch with their authentic self, and that they develop a practice of noticing the voice inside of them. I think a lot of times we can turn up the volume on our head, the voice that's coming out of our head and turn down the volume on what's coming from our gut. And usually what's coming from deep within us is the voice that we need to pay the most attention to. So I think I try to fold that space and try to have, you know, create the right tone in the coaching session to allow for that voice to be heard.

Mary Killelea: What has been some of the most valuable lessons you've learned throughout your career journey?

Anne Shoemaker: Oh, let's see. Oh, I worked at a commercial real estate development company and a couple of them, there were lots of expressions that were thrown around, you know, measure twice, cut once, trust, but verify those types of little kind of maybe almost glib cliches, but then I find myself thinking back to so many times. Especially when it comes to management, you know, making sure that we're having very clear communication. I think it was Brene Brown who said, clear is kind. And I think especially with my coaching clients now, making sure that they understand that when they are giving feedback to a subordinate or when they're asking, you know, for something and they're need their needs, they want their needs to be met, making sure that they're speaking and communicating clearly.

Mary Killelea: How have you built your brand as a coach? And what advice do you have for others on owning their own narrative? Because I see that as a struggle from a lot of women in careers, either being apprehensive to go on LinkedIn, they don't know where to start. And sometimes it's even internal within your own organization that they don't know how to project themselves. So what advice do you have?

Anne Shoemaker: Well, that's where I would dig into that authenticity. That's where I would really say what is true to you and what is true to you, what is your truth and what do you need to be known and not try to do other people's work for them, so to speak. I mean, it's not up to you to impress that person. It's up to you to honor the person inside of you and let them be impressed by you. So that's where I would really, you know, when it comes to your brand or your perception, I think the first person we have to be in alignment with is ourselves. And if we're in alignment with ourselves, and we're not putting on a front to anybody. So, then I would kind of say, let's look at ourselves, let's look at how we're showing up. And let's look at the environment, because you could have a perfectly, you know, a perfect seed that is never going to grow in non-fertile soil.

So sometimes, you know, there's a time where women will say, you know, I just I can't make any progress, maybe I need to speak differently, or I need to show up differently or whatever. And they might, but they also might be in toxic waters. So, I think it's really important for them again, to kind of make sure they're in touch with who they are and how they want to show up. Before we worry so much about the outward appearance of that.

But you brought up LinkedIn, I don't know if you want to me to speak a little bit about networking and okay, because I think that there's a natural segue there. And for me, I'm a natural introvert. And I would like to say that I'm somebody who really does excel at networking. And I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive. So, you know, sometimes we think of people who are extroverted as being the only people who would be good at networking. But when it comes to networking, I find that, you know, as long as we show up authentically and in the relationship, and that includes LinkedIn, then we can take the pressure off. So sending out one on one connection requests on LinkedIn, as long as you're including a message that says something other than I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn, like go ahead and make it personal as if you were dropping something off at a neighbor's house, like, Hey, saw that, you know, you had family in town thought you'd like some flowers or whatever. You can use the same techniques that you use in your personal life when you're doing business networking and make it personal, make it speak to your voice and you're building your brand that way, but you're doing it from the inside out.

Mary Killelea: I love that point because so many people do think that only extroverts can be good at networking. But to your point, I think it's so important that you said that. So I love that. Drawing from your own experience in coaching hundreds of women leaders from Fortune 500 companies like Home Depot and Dell, what strategies can you offer listeners to gain career clarity and just excel within their profession?

Anne Shoemaker: Yeah, it's hard to paint in like a really, a really broad brushstroke there. But I think when it's there's times when women have reached and anyone, but in this case, women, you know, it's reached a certain point and they say, is this really what I want to be doing? Well, if it's not this, then what is it that I want to be doing? And I find that so much, you know, 20, 25 years into a career. And it's almost as if this light bulb goes off and it's, it's more of a light bulb of I know what I don't want and less of a light bulb of I know what I do want.

And so, what I typically advise is yes, spend some time in reflection, spend some time in meditation and mindfulness and noticing things, but don't stay there forever. Go ahead and sign up for the class that's gotten your attention. Go ahead and call the person that you've been meaning to network with, take an action in a direction. It doesn't have to be the right direction in the final direction you're going to go in. But that's the way we get some data back. You know, hey, I had a call with so and so and I thought I was actually thinking about going back to law school. But then I heard this and this so I don't think I want to do that. Doesn't mean it's a failure because you got like a negative, you know, the answer was no, not that direction. It's a data point. Okay, we're, we don't need to explore that anymore, whatever. But go ahead.

I think a lot of times, you know, we have pressures on us, the older we are, you know, you may have family responsibilities, financial responsibilities, and that can make it really challenging to make a change. So, I don't want to diminish that. But I, I am in favor of people taking the smallest lowest risk action in a direction that they can so that they can see how their body their mind how they react to that action. Don't sit and don't sit and think about it forever. Go ahead and do something.

Mary Killelea: I swear you're either talking to me directly. I mean, I just don't relate with what you're saying. And the being aware of the, the feelings within your own body, or the curiosity that arises in you when something is mentioned or knowing what not to go to is something that I think is a gift as you spend time in your career. But at the same time, there is a lot of fear with feeling like you don't have as large of a window to explore options.

Anne Shoemaker: Right. And, and that's, yes. And we still can do some things. We still can go on a coffee date, we still can talk to the other parent on the sideline and ask them a little bit about what what's exciting to them, what's a good day in your role, what's a bad day in your role, or what do people who really excel in this field, what are they into or whatever. It's, we can still have those conversations without really risking too much. And especially even online. I mean, I have some of my clients or legislators and they can't, you know, come, they can't speak about what their heart really wants because they're elected officials. So, you know, there's, there's ways around that. I mean, I can act, I've acted as a proxy for them. And, you know, reached out to recruiters, I have a client who's interested, but you know, they need to remain anonymous. Can you tell me more about this role? There's ways to get things done. There's ways to get information and data points, but it always involves a little bit of risk and some action. And we just can't sit and think and think and think and stare at a ceiling fan. We're not getting anywhere. So we've got to, you know, get somebody in our corner or take, like I said, a low risk action to get some information back.

Mary Killelea: I love all that. And honestly, I think that's part of what I get out of this podcast. And it's that through doing, you're taking action and you're building that self-confidence, you're exploring, you're networking, you're meeting people. So, I'm a big advocate for taking action, especially if it can help build your brand along the way.

Anne Shoemaker: Right. Yes, absolutely. And we can take actions that we're comfortable with. I think early in my career, my dad was always, you know, you got to play golf, you got to play golf. And I'm an athlete, but I didn't want to play golf. But I took the golf lessons and I went to the golf tournaments, but I just didn't enjoy it. It was four hours. And now I'm constantly having like a walking date with a friend, or you can go and have a, you know, a wine tasting with a contact, somebody that you want to network with or whatever. You can go hear a speaker. There's so many things that we can do. We just have to allow ourselves to be a little creative and think what's interesting to me and who would I like to have along with me. That's networking. It doesn't have to be just a business card exchange at a five o'clock, you know, happy hour somewhere. There's lots of ways to explore our interests and broaden our network and develop our brand just by being ourselves.

Mary Killelea: What would you tell your 20-year-old self?

Anne Shoemaker: Relax. I would say relax, which is easier said than done. I mean, when I think back at where I was at 20, I had, you know, lots of dreams, lots of hopes and lots of insecurities about how I would get those done. And it's total privilege to now have accomplished many things and feel like I need to relax because I didn't know what I was going to be able to do back then. But I would say that taking small steps, you know, consistently is always the way that you get it done. It's the old, you know, tortoise and the hare. You just have to keep making progress and it doesn't have to be perfect.

That's the other thing I would say is, I think particularly as girls, you know, we're socialized as young children, we're socialized to be perfect and to please and to be obedient and all those things. And I think that that really can work against us as we get into our careers. And I think kind of learning to accept imperfection again as a data point and accept that sometimes done is better than perfect. And you could be getting in your own way by trying to reach this perfection that doesn't exist. So I would say kind of relax and let go of imperfection and just, just try some stuff.

Mary Killelea: What is your approach or advice to goal setting? Do you like the three, five year kind of goals? Do you like the let's just make small goals and have little wins? What advice do you give?

Anne Shoemaker: I'm more of a small goal person because I just think the winds can change too much. And sometimes we can get attached to an, I don't want to say an arbitrary goal, but we can get attached to something and the economy changes or, you know, there's emergencies or, you know, just life happens. So, I'm more of somebody who's about setting an intention and understanding and then allowing a little bit of the universe to meet me halfway. So, for me, I have a big on vision boards. I'm big on having a word for the year and allowing, kind of allowing forces around me to reveal what that's going to actually look like. I'm not so much on, you know, I want to have, make this amount of money or have this title by the state. I just, I don't know. I think sometimes we can, if we do that, we become closed off to many other opportunities that are out there.

Mary Killelea: You just answered my question because I was going to say, what is the benefit to having a word of the year, which I've done before and I love it because it's focused. What is, is that how you would define it?

Anne Shoemaker: Yes, yes. It's, to me, I would call it setting an intention and saying, you know, my intention for this year is let's say excellence, you know, and what does that mean? And sometimes that's going to mean saying no to things, you know, a colleague of mine said, I loved the way she phrased this. We were just having coffee, having a networking event or networking talk. And she said, you know, I just have to protect my ability to deliver excellent work or something. And I was like, that is so good. You know, she was talking about her boundaries and saying no to opportunities. So, for me, like a word like excellence can mean a lot of things. It doesn't mean twisting yourself into a pretzel and bending over backwards to everything, because that's what excellence is. And, you know, no.

Mary Killelea: That triggered another question from me in my head. What about women who tend to be busy versus impactful? What guidance do you give them?

Anne Shoemaker: Well, I think, and again, I have some thoughts on our culture, but I think in our culture, we tend to, somehow we've gotten into a narrative that like praises busyness. And if you're so busy and your booked so solid, you must be so important. And I don't buy it. I do not buy into it. I think the most liberated people are the ones that are completely in control of their time. So, I think it's busyness versus impact.

I would say the most successful people know what's most important to them. They know what matters most. And if what matters most is, you know, thing A, then they might have nothing on their calendar other than meetings that are going to get them to that one goal, you know, A. And sometimes busyness can say, let's do A, B, C, D, E, F, and G, just so that everybody knows that we're very busy and that we're everywhere, you know, we've covered the canvas in ourselves. And I don't think, I don't think that's a pathway to success. I think getting really clear on what matters most and heading towards it is the way to go.

Mary Killelea: I agree. And I think women struggle with that. So, I'm glad that we're talking about it because value isn't determined through busyness.

Anne Shoemaker: Right. It is not. And to me, I just, I think it's also like a battery.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. That's a good point.

Anne Shoemaker: What are you salt? Like if you're so busy, you know, you're going to be drained at some point. Who's getting the bottom third or quarter of your battery? And is that real? You know, I don't know, I would like to save a little bit for the end of the day, save a little bit maybe for yourself, go for a walk or read a book or something. But if we're so busy that we're overtaxed, to me, it's no way to live. I know that there's people who are in circumstances that have to fill their calendars that way, but I think there's also people who have the privilege of not filling their calendars that way. And I would love to see more people lean into being a little more being and a little less doing.

Mary Killelea: Yep. Love it. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Anne Shoemaker: To be bolder means having the courage to be authentic to yourself. I think, resisting the pressures around us that tell us to be a certain way. So, it's sometimes just being yourself is bold.

Mary Killelea: In your experience, what are some practical ways that young women can build supportive networks and mentorship relationships? Because I know you mentioned earlier that you were fortunate and that you had sponsors and mentors. What advice do you have for them to develop those type of situations?

Anne Shoemaker: Yes. So, if there are people who you believe are pouring into you, giving you a heads up before a meeting, so-and-so person really likes a short slide deck or so-and-so really values promptness or whatever. Whoever it is who's giving you little tips, first of all, no, they don't have to do that. So, they see something in you and the best relationships are two ways. So maybe that's just thanking them. Maybe it's saying, hey, what's your objective? Is there anyone that you're looking to meet? And sometimes I think when we're younger in our careers, we think we don't have anything of value to offer. And that couldn't be further from the truth. Every person listening to this podcast has something to add to the relationship. There's something additive that you can bring. It's just a matter of making the time and making the offer and realizing and appreciating the people who are pouring into you.

And if you haven't found that yet and that you're in an environment where you just haven't, there's no one has really reached out to sponsor you or mentor you, I would say there are opportunities to make those connections. You just are going to have to work a little harder, but the work can be done and it can be done on your terms. It's again, a coffee, a walk, whatever suits you, make it suit some of your interests. So, you're excited to go and participate and invite someone or invite, have a dinner and have a couple of people bring people you don't know. And you might need a mentor that way. Go to networking events and things. I could go on and on, but it is important to find someone who is in your corner and who can give you kind of the lay of the land. It's a terrible thing to feel lost. And there are people who have maps. You've just got to find them.

Mary Killelea: I love it. Before we wrap up, is there anything that you would like to tell the audience that you think that we haven't covered today? And I love the last one that we just hit on because it is those young women who are listening, who don't feel or recognize their own value that they bring. So, they probably maybe play smaller than they should when they do have so much to offer.

Anne Shoemaker: Absolutely. So, to that point, I would say, you know, it's important to know, yes, like I said earlier, it's important to know what matters most to us. It's also important to know what other people's value in us. So, some prompts that I often use with clients are, you know, what do people come for you for help with? What are you doing when you feel like you're making a contribution? When do you feel really proud of your work or like you've really shown up well? Where do you find your energy kind of coming out of your pores? What brings you energy? All of those are things that you can contribute to a relationship.

So I would just say, yeah, I mean, in terms of kind of parting words, I would just say, you know, be mindful of your energy, be mindful of how you show up for yourself and how you're showing up for others and knowing that there's a lot of information you can gather about yourself and your relationships when you're mindful of when your energy is stimulated and when it's brought down. So just be mindful about those things.

Mary Killelea: That's awesome. How can someone get in touch with you or learn more about your business and just reach out?

Anne Shoemaker: Sure. So my website is just my name. I'll spell it out just because there's lots of opportunities to misspell. It's Ann, Ann and E, S-H-O-E-M-A-K-E-R, AnneShoemaker.com. I'm on LinkedIn. It's my favorite social channel and also on Instagram at @CareerAdvisorAnne.

Mary Killelea: Fantastic. Thank you so much for being here. It's a pleasure meeting you, Anna. You've added so much value to our listeners. So thank you for being here.

Anne Shoemaker: Great. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two, little bbolder.com.