Career Growth Advice from Joelle Lewis, Real Estate Leader | Career Tips for Women in Real Estate

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 6
Featuring Joelle Lewis

Episode Title: #6 Career Podcast Featuring Joelle Lewis, a Successful Realtor – Women In Business

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Joelle Lewis



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. On To Be Bolder, you're going to hear inspiring stories of how successful women, some I know, some I just want to bring to you guys, and they're going to talk about their careers in business and tech, and they're going to tell us their stories about their passion and their journey and their challenges, and we're going to learn some of their advice along the way too. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi, my guest today is a woman I have known and admired for many years. She's kind, bright, athletic, creative, ambitious, and driven. She has been in the real estate business for 20 plus years and has been having huge success pursuing a passion of flipping a few homes of her own lately. Joelle Lewis is the principal broker of Lewis and Associates Real Estate team. Welcome to the show, Joelle. It's awesome to have you here.

Joelle Lewis (Guest): Great to be here, Mary. And I hate to correct your intro, but I've actually been in the business 32 years now.

Mary Killelea: Oh, well, thank you for correcting me. I said 20 plus, 32, so yeah. I'm excited for today's discussion for so many reasons. I have so many questions I want to ask you. First, I would love for you to tell everyone how you got into real estate and how you got to where you are today. And I know that's a lot.

Joelle Lewis: Three sentences or less? When I graduated from college, I had a degree in business and a degree in psychology. And I ended up working in retail and then in cosmetic sales for a few years and realized that there was a serious limitation to the income and the corporate ladder and decided I needed to find a business that had unlimited potential. And I knew I wanted to get into real estate within a couple of years of graduating from college, but felt I was too young. But I jumped in all in anyway and never have looked back.

Mary Killelea: I love that about you, that you basically blow through any limits. I mean, like, if you feel limited, you're going to kick down the walls. I just know that about you, which is what I love. Okay, so you've been doing this for 32 plus years, right? What excites you most about it?

Joelle Lewis: Well, I spent the first 20 years just being in the sales part of it. But now I feel like I'm really in the real estate business. So, I'm not just your typical agent that lists homes and helps people acquire homes or investments or works with builders and developers. I do all of that and then some. So, I have my own real estate portfolio that I've acquired. And I just completed my first flip and I love remodeling. And I have so many little arms of my business that I wish somebody had shared with me when I was just getting in the business, to do what I've been doing for the last 10 years, because I'd be retired by now.

Mary Killelea: Right. So the diversification of what you've designed for yourself and your business it kind of gives you that safety net, if you will, if a market takes the dump or if things change, you've got different arms, like you said, that can be levered in different ways, right?

Joelle Lewis: Well, I would like to think diversified, but it's all the same tranche. I have real estate holdings. I am financially diversified, especially at this age. But no, I am all in on real estate. It's all in on black and we're rolling. That marble is rolling around the wheel right now, especially in an election year. Yeah. But I do have different areas of which I'm able to grow my income. That I'm not focused just on one thing, which I really did for many, many years of my business now. And part of it is just needing to shift my energies to places where I really find joy in what I'm doing. And I think it has prevented the burnout that a lot of people experience in commission sales.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's a great point. So what does a typical day look like for you?

Joelle Lewis: There is no typical day. I am in the service business. So when my phone starts to ring, I have to be able to pivot and shift and go. And then when the phone isn't ringing, I have to create and make stuff happen. I have to get on the phone and push things downhill or uphill sometimes. But there is kind of a rhythm to a lot of my practice. And I'm often in front of people in the evenings and on the weekends. But if I'm not in front of people, I'm not in the process of generating income. So, my Mondays start with who needs my attention? What should I be doing? And we have weekly meetings with the team where we all have to go through our priorities and keeping our clients top of mind and what they need and what we're doing for them is always the task at hand.

Mary Killelea: I assume that networking and relationship building is one of your primary things that you wake up and say, how am I leveraging that today?

Joelle Lewis: Yeah. And I think it is my secret sauce is that I have always been an extreme extrovert. And I don't like the quiet. I like a lot of energy happening around me. And if it's coming from people, all the better. We have an expression. There's different gurus you can follow. And one of the most common gurus, or I don't want to call it common, but one of the more popular, that's the word, is he basically has a theory of parting your way to the top. And we do teach this with agents. You always need to put yourself in a place where you're having conversations about real estate. And it really doesn't matter where I go. I make money connecting with people in the tennis court because it always starts with a conversation. How's the real estate market? Hey, I'm thinking of selling. I'd really like to acquire an investment. My daughter needs to buy a home. Those conversations can start at a cocktail party. They can start at happy hour. And so, networking is extremely important. Introverts don't do as well in this industry because again, if you're not putting yourself out there, if you're not putting yourself in front of people, it is tough.

Mary Killelea: So who's inspired you in business?

Joelle Lewis: When I first got into the industry, I really liked the building and new construction leg or arm of the business. And I started working with a builder and helped him build his business from one home a year to 15 homes a year over a long period of time. And I invested with him and then that built into a number of builder relationships. And if there's anything I learned from the builders is they kept in motion, they kept moving. And our tax code is written where if you build a home, you can live in it for two years and then sell it and not pay capital gains tax, as long as it's your primary residence. So, I watched these builders develop a subdivision, build themselves a home, and two years later build a house next door. And at some point, when my kids were old enough to be a little more mobile, we started the process of moving and my kids have lived in three homes over the last six years. And we just moved this last weekend. So it's something that I watched people do and just went, wow, you're making money and it's not taxed. So that's brilliant. And it's a hard thing for a lot of people to even think about doing their home. They root themselves in their home. And I see that a lot, although the average person only stays in a home seven years. And now of course, everyone's infatuated with HGTV and Flip and Flop and all these home improvement shows and everybody wants to flip homes, but you've got to be fearless and you have to have capital and you've got to know what you're doing or you've got to align yourself with a really smart agent that can guide you through that process.

Mary Killelea: Johnny and I totally always like weekend time. We're watching those shows. We love it. And we also love watching you guys, what you're doing and the transformation that you guys have given. And you're fearless. That's another thing about you. Okay. So what's the biggest challenges that you faced?

Joelle Lewis: Oh gosh, my biggest challenge and we'll call it a hiccup or a blip in my trajectory. After 25 years with Remax, I went to work for a startup that was a high tech, cutting edge, bleeding edge marketing, real estate firm that had emerged after the housing bubble burst. And they were creating the most innovative marketing tools. And I was so fascinated by what they were doing that I was stalking them. And they had 20 agents that worked for this company. And I met with the owner and I'm like, I love what you're doing. When are you going to bring an office to Lake Oswego? And he looked at me and he said, why don't we do that? And so I opened up this small no name boutique tech based branch with this company. I was their business development manager and it was huge risk, super fun. And unfortunately, after four years of blood, sweat and tears, energy effort, we built the company to 125 agents. And we had five branches, and we were completely undercapitalized and we just couldn't sustain it. The company ended up selling out just to avoid bankruptcy right at probably the lowest moment in my life. And all of a sudden I was without a home and without a brand and without a practice. And I had spent so much time helping them build their business that I really took the eye off of building my personal brand and my business. So it was devastating. Anyway.

Mary Killelea: You bring up an excellent point and that's building your personal brand. So when someone thinks of Joelle Lewis, what do you want them to think of?

Joelle Lewis: Well, let's go back to your intro. Could you say that all again?

Mary Killelea: Kind, bright, athletic.

Joelle Lewis: Yeah. Driven. Ah, energetic driven. You know, my, my brand, I, after the failure of this company, I sat still with it and realized that I had spent 20 years helping builders build their brand. And then I spent another four years helping another company build their brand. And I went, oh my gosh, I wish I could just roll it all back 10 years, 20 years, and just focus on building my brand. And so I rebranded a couple of years ago and it's now Lewis and Associates and went through a really amazing process with a very amazing woman who that is what she does. Iconic Details is her business name. And I actually brought her into our company to help other agents build their brands because your brand has to be who you are and how you show up, but also it has to be everywhere and on everything. And I had just never gone there with my practice. And so, I did that a couple of years ago. It was a great exercise and now everything we do, it has to be on brand. It doesn't matter if we're throwing a client event party or for marketing a home. It's our Bible.

Mary Killelea: That's fascinating. And I think a lot of the well-known big brands that have lasted over time have had that and that's part of their success. So, I think that's great that you even made that investment. What advice, I'm sorry, what were you going to say?

Joelle Lewis: Well, I was just going to say, I spent 25 years with Remax, which is one of the most well-known real estate brands. And I always thought, Oh, I'm with Remax. That's the brand. That's the Coca-Cola. That's the Nike. And ignored the fact that I needed to create my brand. And so I teach that now to younger agents and the people I'm mentoring, that they always want to show up within that corporate umbrella and brand. That's just going to enhance what they're developing. Again, I always thought it was enough just to hang out under the corporate umbrella or balloon.

Mary Killelea: You just mentioned that the people that you mentor. So, I think that's fantastic that you're helping develop skills and guide younger agents. What type of things do you do with them that help them grow?

Joelle Lewis: I was, as the principal at the company, the small startup company, when we had agents come in, I would teach weekly classes. I would teach round tables. I would give lectures. I would teach systems, just everything you have to have in your tool belt to be a confident real estate agent. And we would break it down by subject and have a new subject every week. And I did that for four years. Now that I'm with a large company, I do teach and I'm a certified educator, and everyone has to have 30 hours a year of continuing education. I'm sorry, 30 hours every two years. So there are topics that I like to show up and lecture about. Speaking in a big group is not my favorite thing, but I've managed to overcome that fear. I prefer a small group, interactive group. And we have weekly meetings where people can show up and just ask questions. And often I'm just snagged in the hall with troubleshooting and problems. But I actually do mentor three younger agents that are on my team. And when I say younger, I mean years of experience in the business. There's so much to learn. It really takes about five years as a practicing agent before you really get it, before you are proficient at all things real estate.

Mary Killelea: What advice would you give someone who's thinking about entering the field of becoming a realtor?

Joelle Lewis JL: I probably get a call once a month, hey, will you talk to my friend? Will you talk to my cousin, sister, brother, mother? And there are a lot of barriers to entry now in the real estate field. And just like any small business, the first one that I always pin people down on is you have to have capital. You may not get a check your first six, eight, 10 months in the business and you're lucky to get a check. But the cost of getting into the business, the costs are very low, but you have to invest in the business. You have to market yourself. You have to market homes. You have to put yourself out there. You have to spend money to attract your first clients and leads. Number one reason all small businesses fail is lack of capital. And for agents, it's the same thing. 80% of newer agents will be out of the business in the first two years. And part of it is commission only sales. No one is having you punch a clock, telling you what to do, telling you when to show up, how to show up. I mean, there are amazing training programs, books, YouTube. We didn't have YouTube when I was trying to figure it all out. But if you don't have money, if you don't have, it's emotionally too difficult to keep on slugging it out.

Mary Killelea: What are some key qualities that are required to be successful in real estate?

Joelle Lewis: I think that, let me tell you what you don't. The one, my pet peeve is an agent's like, oh, I'm going to get my license. I just love houses. You have to love people. You have to love being with people and you've got to be compassionate. But you also have to be a really confident competitor. If you can say yes to both of those things, then you're built for this business. You can't just like interior design or like staging or like remodeling. It's not about houses. You are in the service business, and you have to be there and ask people, how can I help you find your dream, meet your goals? And often we're dealing with people in transition and sometimes those transitions are very challenging. Divorce, death, the loss of a spouse, job transition, job change. Some of the time it's just not always a happy place. And we have another little joke at the team meetings and that is that we throw in the counseling for free. So often. And people handle stress at a different level, and you can't take on their stress and you also can't exacerbate their stress. You have to be the calm, knowledgeable, steady in their process. Otherwise, everyone's just spinning into a very anxious state. So, I think it's the reason I have loved this business for so long is that I wanted to be a psychologist and it's just satisfied that need problem solve. And so, yeah, but my new goal is to recognize when I'm trying to help someone that just isn't mentally healthy. I tend to see that as a huge challenge and take it on. And so my thing is one a year, just one a year.

Mary Killelea: How important is it to hone in on a focus area when you're a relator? You know, whether it's location, you know, you're going to focus on a special section of town or maybe you're looking towards targeting or marketing to young couples or say, I'm just going to sell homes in this price point. How important is it to be that focused or is that a disservice to yourself because you're narrowing your opportunities?

Joelle Lewis: Yeah, I see a lot of agents taking a shotgun approach to the business, meaning the more they throw it out there, the more opportunities will come their way. And I always tell newer agents to focus on a primary market and then start widening your reach. The whole neighborhood expert, people still advertise that and they will market to the neighborhood they live in or the subdivision they live in or the HOA. And that's great because it is nice that they kind of know what's going on. But the homeowner typically is the neighborhood expert. I think the biggest shift in the real estate business is that people are no longer the neighborhood experts, but we are marketing firms. We are in the business of exposing your home to the market in the best way possible. And that shift this last decade with technology, with the fact that we are no longer the keeper of all the information, that's all out there on the web. It's on Zillow. It's on Realtor.com. All that information is available for the consumer. We're just helping them filter it appropriately. But also we are marketing firms. Now we are in the business of marketing their home for sale. And so we don't have to live in the neighborhood. We have to be really proficient marketers and really experienced at getting a home exposed.

Mary Killelea: That's a really good point. So how many people do you deal with who buy homes sight unseen and they've just seen it through marketing online? Do you find, I mean, I'm sure that's risen. I don't know what percent it is or if you know, but…

Joelle Lewis: Once a year I FaceTime somebody and they make an offer on a home prior to ever physically walking through the door.

Mary Killelea: Wow.

Joelle Lewis: So they're not only seeing the pictures online, doing a virtual tour, doing a drone flyover, but I can FaceTime. And sometimes I just have one of the couple, the other one's on the phone and that's always pretty comedic. But this last year I did have a family from California and they bought the home sight unseen, came up for the home inspection and it was everything that they thought it would be. We closed and they're happily living in that new home.

Mary Killelea: That's amazing.

Joelle Lewis: Yeah. It takes a lot of trust. And you hope that your agent can reinforce that yes, this is a good value. This is a good neighborhood. It's easy for me now to be very confident about saying, yes, this is a good buy. Yes, this is a good investment and sharing that. And I can do it with data, but I can also just say, Hey, I know this neighborhood. I know this area. I've been doing this for 32 years.

Mary Killelea: Right. Believe it. So what drives you, Joel Lewis, to be successful? What's your why?

Joelle Lewis: I am that confident competitor. I think I've spent the, you know, my entire career just trying to be better every year than I was the previous year. And that is just in my DNA. I, a lot of people think when you get into real estate business, you're competing against the 5,000 other licensed agents that are in town. When in fact you're competing with the amount of time that you spend with the amount of time that you have to spend on your business practice. And again, I love just having, I always write my goals down and every time I write them down, I meet or exceed them. So I just keep on pushing them higher and higher and higher. It's just like a game that how much can you do? And I was the number one agent when my second child was born. That year I got the award. I sold 120 homes that year. That was 10 homes a month. And I had a four-year-old and a newborn. And I tried to slow it down. I tried to, I actually physically wrote down goals. It said, we will sell 20% less. And it didn't work. I just became more efficient. I became more focused on working in higher price points.

It's what happened after the bubble burst in the housing market in 2009. I had been working with multiple builders and I needed to recreate myself and my brand. So I decided to approach the luxury market. And I had a 10-point bullet. Here's 10 chapters. Here's how I was going to shift my practice and my business. And I made it happen. It was little things like, I'm going to go buy that Jaguar that's always been on my vision board. And I bought the car ahead of the success, but that was my plan. And I put on the boots, bought the car, and repositioned myself as a luxury resell listing agent.

Mary Killelea: You lived the life that you were visioning and then it caught up with you.

Joelle Lewis: Yes, it happened.

Mary Killelea: It does. And that's not for everyone because some that don't follow through will get themselves in a big heap of debt. But if you're driven and can and follow through, it makes so much sense because visualization. I'm a big firm believer of visualizing what you want, seeing it. And I love that you make a vision board every year. And I see yours. What are a few things on your current vision board?

Joelle Lewis: Well, I actually had to do two vision boards this year, one for my business and my practice. And I always have a word of the year. And a few years back, it was balance. And just keeping in mind that I need to learn how to better balance. This previous year, I was sitting there doing my vision board and this eagle started hanging out on my lawn, eating a fish. And I had an eagle feather and I loved watching the eagles in front of my home. And I decided that my word of the year last year was soar. And this year, I don't have a word on my vision board yet. I think it's soar higher. And the definition of sore is to fly to new heights without flapping your wings. And so it kind of is that combination of a little balance. And so, I want to continue to build my business, even though I'm approaching retirement. But I don't want to do it like I used to. Meaning, yeah, just running myself ragged, trying to be all things to all people. And so, I'm reusing my word of last year, but I decided it was soar higher this year.

Mary Killelea: I love it. What are some of the pros and cons of being a realtor?

Joelle Lewis: Ah, obviously the pros are unlimited income. I never, ever thought that I would make the kind of money that I have made in this business. But it definitely is a risk reward output. And so, the big pro, of course, is the income potential. The other is just being able to control your schedule. I can't even imagine what it would be like to have a job. But I think I work harder with myself as a boss. If there was somebody actually telling me what to do and how to do it. But just in the middle of the day, if I am done, I can go get a pedicure.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Joelle Lewis: And head home and, I don't know, do laundry in the middle of the day. I love working from home. I'm super productive. A lot of people aren't. They have to have somebody cracking the whip or holding them accountable. That's a real problem in our industry is people just aren't accountable to their goals and nobody's watching over them. So that is the con, is that it's a business where people get very complacent and then they don't know why it shows up on their bottom line. They just aren't self-stutters. They aren't self-motivated. They aren't as driven. And they really hate rejection. Rejection is a tough part of sales. And I'd like to say that I have a pretty thick skin, but I still get hurt. I know, because I take it all so personally. It's like, what do you mean you're not hiring me? I'm the best. Are you kidding? But then I always reflect on my rejection. And that's something I've been really good at and go, okay, how could I win next time? How can I do better? How can I, what? I lost, oh, well then I need to be more like them if I lost to that person. So, it works with my personality. I call myself counterphobic. So, if something scares me, I approach it versus running away.

Mary Killelea: That's an amazing quality. What is the craziest thing that you've seen over the years? I always love hearing stories like this.

Joelle Lewis: Oh my gosh. I wish I had written the book because I have stories. I could fill an hour just on some of my best stories, but that's best over a bottle of wine. We get to see people where they live, how they live, and that's everything from the hoarders and the emotionally disabled people, the borderline personalities. I once had to sell the house that a CEO of the company had purchased for his stripper girlfriend. Before weed was legal, I'd walk into grow rooms because everyone had a medicinal right to grow. And so, you see it all, but the crazy part of this business is really the crazy people that you end up engaging with. And I have a pretty good emotional IQ. And so when I start to feel and see crazy, if somebody really needs my help, I am all in. But crazy, aggressive people, I luckily have the pleasure of now saying, you know what, we're not a good fit. I don't think we should work together. And I have to fire clients, which is really hard to do because you've already invested so much time, energy, and effort. And I fired a client and then I sent one of my associates out to pick up the lockbox off the house. And he called me and said, I don't understand why you didn't come and get the lockbox yourself. I was thinking we would hire you again when we were ready to sell the house. And I'm thinking, oh my gosh, I'm so happy. I'm thinking, no, I wouldn't want to work with you again. And it takes a lot. It takes a lot because I can handle it. Yeah, so it's not crazy situations, it's crazy people.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. And I think that's good advice for, you know, women who are looking to get in the business. If they ever feel unsafe or intimidated in a negative psychotic kind of way that it's okay to walk away and that they don't have to stick in it and be put themselves in uncomfortable situations.

Joelle Lewis: Yes.

Mary Killelea: Do you have any idea how many homes you've sold?

Joelle Lewis: I get 32 years if you figure that I've sold an average of 30 homes a year, it's well over a thousand.

Mary Killelea: Oh my goodness.

Joelle Lewis: And then there's probably a quite a few that, if you think about how many homes I've been in, 25,000, it's always fun to go to somebody's house. I've been invited for an event. It's like, oh, I've been here before. I can walk into homes and go, oh, that's a Masquard plan, built in the nineties. So I always love it when there's a street that I drive down that I haven't been down before. And I'm like, oh, I've never been down this street. This is awesome. So I know Portland pretty well. And that's fun. I also have a natural GPS in my brain. And so, if I went to your house once and I haven't been there for a year, I don't even need your address. I just know how to get there. So that really was a bonus skillset.

Mary Killelea: Do you have a favorite style of home?

Joelle Lewis: I do, but because I rescue homes, I can work with a lot of different styles. So, my current project is going to be a retro 1940s cottage. And the house was originally built in the forties and then it was added onto. And so we're stripping it of all of its eras. And I want to bring it back to a 1940s lake cottage. And that is my current home. We moved this last weekend so that we could get that house. And it's a pretty big project and a pretty expensive one too. But I love any style of home or any era of home, as long as it's authentic, just like my people.

Mary Killelea: You prioritize staying fit and travel. How do you manage all that work-life balance? Because you guys have gone all over. I mean, you play tennis, where do you in Cuba or where do you go?

Joelle Lewis: Yeah, we go annually to Aruba to play tennis. Um, but I do, I play tennis four times a week and I love competing. And I took a sabbatical 15 years ago after I'd already been in the business 15 years and realized that I love sports. I love competing. I love, again, I love improving myself. And so a decade ago I took up playing tennis competitively and chasing little yellow balls around and it is a perfect stress relief on a daily basis. And sometimes my day starts with a round of tennis or it ends with a round of tennis or I have a match in the middle of the day, but it fits really well with my practice because I can schedule everything around taking an hour off and the travel, I wish, my goal this year, if you were to look at my vision board, back to the vision, is to travel more and more and more. And that's part of the reason I have a team because I care so much about my clients. I always have travel guilt. So, when I'm away, I can't stop thinking about what I should be doing to help my client. And so I have an amazing team and they're there for the client. So now when I go, I'll check email, but I don't take a phone and that's just necessary for your emotional mental health. But we do like to travel and the year I retire, we are going to travel around the world for a year and have perpetual summer.

Joelle Lewis: Oh, I love it. Yeah. So, you can follow me on Instagram.

MK: While I'm back home working.

Joelle Lewis: Yeah. While you're working.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. Where in the world is Joelle?

Joelle Lewis: Yeah, I'm trying to get better socially of sharing my own personal projects. I did a complete flip last year and I think I probably sent out like five posts. So my goal is to set out weekly posts for all my friends are like, what's going on at the house? What's going on? But it's confusing, of course, because I see real estate photos and then they see my remodel photos and they don't know what's what. So, I'm going to try to be a little more transparent this year.

Mary Killelea: Oh, good. Good. Okay. So if you could tell your 20 year old self one thing, what would it be?

Joelle Lewis: We touched on it a little earlier and that is build your own personal brand. And I think that's true for everybody. You've got one thing to sell and that's you and one thing to promote. Again, that's my, I don't want to call it my business regret, but I spent so much time building other people's brand that I just wish I had been a little more self-absorbed. So I think I, yeah, if I could go back and tell my 20 year old self. When I actually got in the business, when I was 25, um, you know, I just wish I'd had the bigger vision of what my practice could be because it has soared.

Mary Killelea: Well, and I think the younger generation today has an advantage over us that didn't grow up with the internet. I mean, or the HGTVs of the world. They are exposed to endless things and possibilities and even travel places or how you reimagine your life. And so, for that reason, I love social media and I love what the internet has brought to our lives and the younger generation. So that's one thing I wish that we would have had while we were younger, but at the same time, I don't think I would have ever wanted to be in college with cell phone cameras.

Joelle Lewis: Yeah. I watched this younger generation and they are all trying to be influencers, but they don't have the information behind it. And so as I get into social media and know that I need to be there to with my brand and with all of myself, I'm constantly battling this part about just be authentic, just be authentic, just do you. And when you're new in this business, you're told to build a brand so that you have some clout and that you have some influence. And we've kind of always done that, but now it's very public. And I see people jumping on to their social media sites and trying to create something that they're just not, especially with young real estate agents. They're trying to pretend like they're the expert because they have a real estate license down. It's like, no, no, no, no, I'm the expert. You do this for 32 years. You can wear the expert t-shirt. I'm the expert. And it was funny because a newer agent had put out a flyer to a neighborhood and she's like, your neighborhood expert. And someone sent her back a note and said, really? I just noticed you've only been licensed to here. Like perhaps I should use a different attitude. I'm like, yes, perhaps. So you can build your brand early, just not too early. And they all want success instantly.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Joelle Lewis: And this, you've got to play the long game. You have to be in this business. Especially teaching weekly classes, I'd have all these new agents and I'd have 40 of them in my branch and I'd have 10 of them show up. And it's like what are you doing? You have to spend the first two to five years just spending half your time educating yourself.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Joelle Lewis: You have to earn respect. It's not given to you.

Mary Killelea So, do you have any good books or podcasts that you listen to that you would recommend or want to share?

Joelle Lewis: Well, at the risk of sounding like, like the dinosaur I am, my favorite one that I constantly refer back to is Seven Levels of Communication. I find, and I think this is probably true in any industry, people are quick to text. They'll text a thank you note. It's like, come on. I think again, let's not, I need to lecture to the younger self, but sometimes you just have to pick up a phone and have a conversation and have a higher level conversation and ask the tough questions rather than texting and emailing. Especially in sales, you have to pick up the phone and hear what they have to say. You've got to ask questions. You've got to understand and you've got to dive deep anyway. So that's a book that I often reference when I am talking to agents about troubleshooting problems they're having in a transaction or with their business. And so I love that book. Outliers is another one that you'll find on my shelf, although all my books are still in boxes.

Mary Killelea: Oh, well, thank you for today. Thank you for taking the time and coming on and being a guest. It's been awesome chatting with you.

Joelle Lewis: Oh, it's always fun. And, um, thank you for giving me the opportunity to share.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two, little b, bolder.com.