Career Growth Advice from Christine Kidder-Graves, Career Development Leader | Career Tips for Women in Career Development

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 91
Featuring Christine Kidder Graves

Episode Title: #91 The Art of Career Advancement with Executive Coach Christine Kidder Graves

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Christine Kidder Graves



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, where we spotlight women who redefine success and inspire us to be bolder in all of our pursuits. Today, we're thrilled to introduce a guest who has seamlessly navigated the intricate world of HR and career coaching, Christine Kidder Graves.

Christine's journey is nothing short of impressive, from starting out in the financial world as an analyst right after graduating from DePaul University, and then moving on to her true calling, which was a realm of human resources. With a rich background as a recruiter, HR generalist, and later as an HR leader, Christine has left her mark in diverse sectors, from telecommunications to nonprofits and associations. In 2018, she took a bold leap, stepping away from corporate America to establish her own venture, Christine Kidder & Associates. Christine is a true business coach, expert in helping businesses and leaders pursue their dreams. When she's not reshaping careers, she's cherishing moments with her family, which include three energetic boys and two playful black labs. She is a competitive runner, and she also finds joy in simple pleasures of life, like wine tasting with friends. Christine, thanks for joining us.

Christine Kidder Graves (Guest): Thank you so much for inviting me. So, this is great. I'm really excited to be talking with you now.

Mary Killelea: Thank you. You've been bold in your career, making major pivots in your life. Tell us what does to be bolder mean to you?

Christine Kidder Graves: To be bolder means to grow. And to grow, I feel that we always have to stretch outside of our comfort zone. We have to be willing to be uncomfortable and embrace being uncomfortable. Because the more you're uncomfortable, then the less uncomfortable it becomes. You get more comfortable.

Mary Killelea: I love it. Yeah, definitely. Talk and walk us through your career path, your journey from starting off as a financial analyst, and then going into human resources for many years, and now to owning your own business.

Christine Kidder Graves: Yes, I'm happy to. So I always loved math when I was a student. I just enjoyed it. I loved it so much in high school, and I excelled with math. It was just super easy for me. And I knew that I wanted to go to college and get a business degree. So, I thought, well, since I love math, I should major in accounting. I think accounting is a great foundation in business. I shouldn't have any trouble landing a job with an accounting degree. The one thing though, is when I got to college and I had my first accounting class, because I didn't take accounting in high school, I'm like, this is not math. This is different, which was fine. It was not a problem. Accounting was just accounting. It's just there. But I'm not dissing it at all. I'm grateful. I did get my accounting degree, and I got a great education from DePaul. So very grateful for that. And I am glad that I chose that as my business major. So, it's helped me so much because then I was able to get work experience.

At the last minute, I decided not to go into public accounting. I did interview with all the firms and I received offers from them. But I just was like this isn't the path I want to take. Everyone seems to be doing this. And I wanted to do something different. And I was able to get a really good entry level financial analyst job when I graduated from college. So, I did that. Yeah. And I got to work at one of the startups that Howard Tullman had started here. He's like a serial entrepreneur here in the Chicago area. So, when it was a young company, it was a great place to work, you know, fresh out of school because there are I made, I've made friends there that I'm still in touch with, I see like at a reunion once a year. So, it's just nice.

That was good. But then after about seven or eight years of doing that, I started to get kind of itchy, you know, it's like, hmm, I need something different. What is it? And then that freaked me out, because I'm like, I put all this time and energy and my degree and money and then I can't just, you know, I was more of the at that time in my life, I thought that I had to follow the traditional path, and then not later in life when my mid 40s, I finally read Rich Dad Poor Dad. And it was like, no, I don't have to do that. So yeah, I wish I had read that book much earlier, but oh, well. But anyway, I'm like, well, what am I going to do? How am I going to use my experience as in finance and accounting and my degree? What am I going to do? And I decided I knew all these recruiters in accounting and finance because they would call me about opportunities. And I started talking with them. And I'm like, how do you do your job? And why do you do your job? And tell me more. So, I was researching it. And that's what I did. I made a pivot after researching it and thinking about it. I did a pivot, and I became a recruiter, a headhunter in accounting finance, working 100% commission, which was totally scary for me because I had never been in a sales role before. But I loved it. It was great. It worked out. So. So I did that for about seven or eight years.

Mary Killelea: And then 2018 comes around and you're like another pivot.

Christine Kidder Graves: Yeah, another pivot. And this time I had the opportunity to broaden my horizons because recruiting was a great way to get into human resources. I think many people get into HR through recruiting and a connection of mine that I had worked with at the recruiting firm, she had left and she moved on to HR. And then she reached out to me and she's like, hey, we have more openings here. Why don't you come and join us? I talked with them and yeah, so that's how I was able to move into a HR business partner generalist role. And that was at a company after I joined them, they were growing. And then I think after six months to a year of being there, they hit the one billion dollar mark in revenue. So that was, that was Castle Metals or AM, AM Castle and Company and got great experience there.

And then from there, I was able to take another step up and create the HR function at a startup company that was in telecom. It was a niche company in telecom. And that was great experience too. That was scary. It's like, we have to embrace the scary, you know, it's like those goals that are like inside our soul, that are big scary goals. They're both exciting and terrifying at the same time.

Mary Killelea: Yeah.

Christine Kidder Graves: I really believe that we were each given unique skills and talents to use. We can't be letting them go to waste. We can't, there's a parable in the Bible where, you know, someone is given a gold and he buries it in the ground, you know, because he's afraid of losing it. And it's like, we can't bury our gifts. We need to use them and we need to be brave and we need to, as Brene Brown talks about being on the field or being on the battlefield, you know, we have to really show up every day.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, I totally agree with that statement wholeheartedly. How do you think your experiences unique to you, you know, the finance, the accounting, and then also the HR and the various roles within HR, and then your recruitment background, how does that help you unique to be a unique coach?

Christine Kidder Graves: I think it helps me in terms of, I've experienced different labor markets, different economies. I've also experienced different cultures, different industries. And I've worked with a wide variety of hiring managers and different leadership, different personalities, and also on a wide variety of positions too. So, and when I started off as a recruiter in accounting and finance, we did any level in accounting and finance and then being able to broaden my horizons. Like when I went to my next position, we worked on positions even in the warehouse and then in on the management team at the executive level. So, it's nice to have a variety of roles to work on. So because you get to understand the requirements and what's needed. So I think those things have helped me really to be a good career coach, like that experience. But things continue to change and evolve, changes the constant we can count on. And it's been really, it's been a helpful experience that, I mean, I've always wanted to take that experience that I had working for employers and use it to help individuals.

Mary Killelea: So that's a good transition into your business. Tell us about your business, the services that you provide and how you had the confidence to know that you could go out on your own and do well.

Christine Kidder Graves: I felt I had the confidence because I'm like, I have this knowledge. I know that it's useful. I know that it's helpful. So, I just have to figure out how to market it and how to, how to sell, you know, that I love being a business owner, but it's not for everyone. And it stretches you so much, just like being a parent does.

Mary Killelea: Good comparison. I mean, some people will argue with that, but I get what you're saying.

Christine Kidder Graves: Yeah. So really, really stretches you because you have to wear all these different hats and, which is great. But yeah, so my services really are the full range. I really want to, I love doing one-on-one coaching, although I am going to be putting together a group offering to people soon. I've been talking about and talking about, and I've tried different things, but I think it's important to have a little bit more diversity in my offerings to serve others. But what's great about one-on-one is it's really tailoring my service to the individual's need. So I have helped people who just need a resume updated, people who just want their LinkedIn profile updated. They may not even be in transition mode. They may not be looking to make a job change, but they know that their profile needs to be updated. With those two things, what's really important to me is that someone is true to themselves, true to their brand, authentic, and that's reflected. I don't want there to be a disconnect between who they are as a leader and their LinkedIn profile and their resume. It should, and even a cover letter, I've helped with cover letters. So, it should all be on brand. All should make sense.

Also, when people are in transition, when they are doing a job search, I've worked with people with that, you know, and typically I have like a 90-day plan for that because that's what it takes. I have had, I've worked with clients where we've been able to work and they've been able to land a job in less than 90 days, like 60 days. It just depends on what's going on, their bandwidth too. I have clients who have very busy, demanding full-time jobs while they're also trying to do a job search. So that's the perfect time to have a career coach too because it's not just you who's really working to move your search forward. I'm supporting you as well. I'm helping you. And yeah, so that, and of course I do work with people who their job search is their full-time job. You know, maybe they received a severance or whatever, it depends on the situation. But yes, I do work with individuals in that situation too.

And then I should mention, I also have clients who are not doing a job search, but they want greater clarity. Like for example, one of my clients is a CMO and she decided to work with me for about a year because she wanted greater clarity on what was next for her. She's committed in her current role for at least the next two to three years. And she just wanted to really flesh out more what's next for me and then what's my plan to get there over the next two, two to three years. And I think another driver for her deciding to work with me is the last time she did a job search, it took her 10 months to find something and she felt very ill-prepared when that occurred. And I think she really wanted to prevent that from happening again. So, so yeah.

Mary Killelea: That's wonderful. I love hearing about that. Now, do you see career strategy being like one of the top challenges that women face or what would you say as far as the top challenges that people come to you with?

Christine Kidder Graves: I do. I think having a strategy, having a plan is crucial. I mean, we're supposed to have a financial plan, right? We're supposed to save for our retirement and do other things to be financially healthy. Yet for our career, we really don't, we're not taught that in school either. Like we might have, like in college, luckily DePaul had a most, I think most colleges have like a career placement center, but still it's like, you really should be taught earlier, I think in high school because it's your livelihood and really being, being more aligned with what do you love doing? And really getting in touch with that. My son just started his senior year in high school on Monday and we're actually working with a college counselor or college consultant outside of his high school to really help us like dive deep and have my son do assessments and help us to find the best college that's the best fit for him because I just don't feel enough is done in the school system to really help people get in touch with that.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I interviewed a woman, Kristen, and she works for College Bound and she does just that. And I think it's a great, great resource for students because having that alignment with who you are and what you like to do, learning environments, et cetera, if you have that aligned, it makes a big significant difference in your college experience, just like knowing your values and understanding your type of best work in environment, micromanager versus non-micromanager direction versus lack of feedback or desire for feedback, all those clarifying things, the more you can be self-aware, I think are crucial for job success or career success.

Christine Kidder Graves: Yeah, they are very, very important.

Mary Killelea: Do you hone in on a certain, I guess, women in a certain area of their career? So, early career or up to executive?

Christine Kidder Graves: It seems like the level that I work with usually is starting at like director or hire. However, I mean, I have done work with some managers. It depends on the size of the organization. So, because if they're a manager at a larger organization, then they could be like at a director, similar to a director level at a smaller company. So, but typically director level or higher. And, but across all industries, like service, I do have a lot in the service industry. I don't seem to have a lot of clients out of like manufacturing per se.

Mary Killelea: What would you tell other women who wanted to follow in your footsteps and be a career coach?

Christine Kidder Graves: And I have talked with some women, yeah, who've reached out to me about that. And I would say I think it's great. I want you to definitely pursue having your own business. I would say the sooner you can start, the better. And you can start it on the side. You don't have to have like this all or nothing view. I know it can be challenging when you have family that you're balancing, you have a demanding full-time job, and now you're actually really thinking about starting on your own business. And you can do it. You can do it. My coach that I worked with for two years, Julie Ciardi, she had been a VP at IBM for like 20 years. And she, for a long time, she wanted to leave corporate, and she finally did. But she had a family. She's actually started a boutique, a brick and mortar boutique while she was working for IBM. And then she sold that. And then she, so her journey was like this twists and turns and stuff, but she did find her way. So, the thing is, is that she started, she didn't wait for things to be perfect.

The key is to be an action. It doesn't have to be perfect action. There is no such thing as perfect action. There's only imperfect action. So even if you just do, even if you just start with 15 minutes a day, something is better than nothing because little, I love that book, Atomic Habits by James Clear.

Mary Killelea: I read that this summer, yeah, it’s good.

Christine Kidder Graves: Yeah. If we just start even with small, those small, consistent actions over time are super powerful. I mean, think about brushing your teeth, you know, as long as you religiously brush your teeth and you do it properly, you'll have good dental hygiene, but if you let that slip, bad things are going to happen.

Mary Killelea: So funny, we're talking about good habits, but you also emphasize good mindset. Why is that so important for our listeners and what can they do? What tips do you give people?

Christine Kidder Graves: It's kind of like affirmations too, because you could have an affirmation, but if you don't really believe it, you're kind of lying to yourself, and the affirmation is not going to work. So it has to be something that you believe in is possible. It might not be happening right now, but you do think it's possible. And in action, when you're taking action, it's like when you want to have better nutrition, you want to be a healthy eater. You need to take the action, but you also have to be, be the healthy eater, and just by being that healthy eater, when that chocolate cake crosses your path, it's like, I'm a healthy eater. Is a healthy eater going to eat that? Maybe a healthy eater might have a small sliver, so you're not depriving yourself. But then maybe I'll do go for a run later on, or go for a walk or something, be the healthy eater.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. What would you tell your 20 year old self starting out now?

Christine Kidder Graves: I would have told her to read Rich Dad Poor Dad. And then I would also tell her to read Playing Big by Tara Moore. Although I don't know, I'm trying to remember when Tara wrote that book. So, but I think every woman as soon as possible needs to read that book, because it's just so, so great in many ways. I mean, I have, I have my women that I work with read that book.

Mary Killelea: I've read that one. And I love that one, too. Have you ever read the book Magic?

Christine Kidder Graves: I've heard of Magic.I've been told to read that and I need to read that because I've heard that's amazing.

Mary Killelea: All right, I'll include all of these in the show notes so people can read those. What is the biggest challenge for people pivoting, you know, from one career to the next? Besides, like, is it, is it them re not only retooling, but taking the experience that they have today and making it relevant for the new role?

Christine Kidder Graves: Yes, those are certainly challenges. I think that you have to be prepared. Think of it as a sales job when you're trying to make a pivot. You know, it's like you've got to sell someone on you. You always have to sell someone on you when you're trying to get a job, trying to get a position. And you've got to be prepared for lots of rejection. Okay, just be ready for it. And don't give up because, if you truly believe in your heart of hearts that you can do this, then then do it.

And the other thing is, I really want you to find someone who's done it. If you can find someone who's successfully made that pivot, talk with them, spend time with them, find out how they did it and try to try to copy them. Why do you need to reinvent the wheel? If someone has already cleared a path, see if that path will work for you. You might have to start taking it and then maybe you need a detour. But see and just talk. And if you can find more than one of those people, that would be great because ideally you want to be spending time with those people as much time as possible to find out who are they being in order to have accomplished what you want to accomplish.

Mary Killelea: What kind of advice do you give women around negotiation in general terms?

Christine Kidder Graves: To embrace it. I think we're all to embrace it. I feel like certain cultures are better at negotiating than we are. They seem to be more comfortable with it. It's getting comfortable. I think one of another book that I really like, the title is kind of corny. It's by Ramit Sethi and it's I Will Teach You to Be Rich. But and he I think he still has a show on Netflix. I thought he started that. I don't know if it's still running. But anyway, he's a really good financial guru. I like him and he just has a great sense of humor. But he gives examples of how his father, he would go with his father when his father went to buy a car and just how his father was negotiating on the floor mats and just like really the detail, you know, and we should always be negotiating. And that's how comfortable we need to be with it. You know, and I know as a woman, I started off being very uncomfortable with it and I still have those moments of being uncomfortable with it. But it was great. One of the employers that I worked for, they got negotiation training for their managers and I was able to participate in that. And I thought, that's huge. If a company can provide that, because I just think communication skills and negotiation skills are just so helpful to have in our toolbox.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely, especially as fast as the industries are changing, AI is changing with the technology. There's just, if that's almost like the foundational elements of success.

Christine Kidder Graves: It is.

Mary Killelea: What do you wish employers would do a better job of when it comes to keeping happy employees?

Christine Kidder Graves: I wish that they would do a better job of giving feedback to their employees. Because everybody is hungry for feedback and everyone wants to know that feedback helps us to be better. And it's happened way too many times in my HR career when a manager would come to me wanting to terminate someone's employment yesterday. And it's like, well, where's the documentation that you have shared this information with them and given them a chance to improve and put them on a performance improvement plan. Oh no, what? It's like, you need to communicate with someone and give them the opportunity. Maybe this is salvageable. Maybe. So I just think, but that's one, that's more of an extreme example. But really employees, we can all be better, but we need that feedback.

Mary Killelea: So another thing that I have read this in several different articles is that one of the biggest reasons people leave their jobs is because the lack of seeing career progression. What are your thoughts on that and how do you help women and know what they don't know?

Christine Kidder Graves: Yeah, it's like, I think that comes back to having a career plan. And it's like checking in with yourself and you may not, it's like a climbing Mount Everest. I think we all want to be at the end of our life, to be able to look back and feel like, hey, I built something, or I help people. I contributed, I left something behind, I served others, whatever it is for you. And it's like, okay, so how do you get there? How do you work backwards? What's the path? And you might, I don't expect you to see the entire path up to Mount Everest, but if you can at least know what the next step is, and then always be asking yourself because we change and we grow.

And actually another book that I tell my clients to read too, and even when I meet someone, like one of the best ways I can help someone who's a new connection is when we do a career clarity call too. So that's a call that I do with new connections. It's totally free because I want to get to know them. I want them to get to know me. And I can, I also like do an audit of their LinkedIn profile for them to give them some feedback. But then I also like to, I really try to treat my new contacts like clients too. I want to start serving them right away because that's important. And but this book is The Top Five Regrets of the Dying and it's by Brownie Ware because really I don't want anyone having regrets at the end of their life. And I think it's important to, we take life for granted all the time. We do.

Mary Killelea: We do.

Christine Kidder Graves: And we need to stop doing that. And Steve Jobs was great at, he has some amazing quotes. He wasn't a perfect person by any means, but I think he understood eventually that you shouldn't be taking life for granted. So you've got to seize the moment.

Mary Killelea: You've spoken a lot about serving people, not even just your paying customers, but just contacts. And you have a huge following on LinkedIn. And I'm sure this authentic serving attitude that you have has made you attract so many people. And I think that's wonderful because you share weekly advice for career seekers on your LinkedIn newsletter. How often does that come out? Every week or?

Christine Kidder Graves: Yeah, my newsletter comes out once a week. It comes out on Fridays.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, I'm a subscriber and I think that's how I kind of came across from you the first time. And then anyway, it's rich with content, very useful content. So, I appreciate it. All right, before we wrap this up, I want to have a little more fun with you and ask you some rapid fire questions to get to know you a little better. Waffles or pancakes?

Christine Kidder Graves: Waffles.

Mary Killelea: Comedy or drama?

Christine Kidder Graves: Comedy.

Mary Killelea: Fiction or nonfiction?

Christine Kidder Graves: Fiction.

Mary Killelea: Cooking at home or eating out?

Christine Kidder Graves: Eating out.

Mary Killelea: Coffee or tea?

Christine Kidder Graves: Coffee.

Mary Killelea: Wine or cocktail?

Christine Kidder Graves: Oh gosh, wine.

Mary Killelea: And last one, pasta or pizza?

Christine Kidder Graves: Pizza.

Mary Killelea: This has been so nice to get to know you. Thank you for sharing so much of your journey and your advice from your coaching chair. It's a pleasure to meet you. Thanks for being on the show.

Christine Kidder Graves: Thank you, Mary. I really enjoyed this time that we had. This was a great conversation. So thank you.

Mary Killelea: How can people get a hold of you?

Christine Kidder Graves: The best way to get a hold of me, I would say, I think it's just super easy to find me on LinkedIn. So yeah, so I'm Christine Kidder Graves. Just look me up on LinkedIn. And Kidder is spelled K-I-D as in Delta, D as in Delta-E-R, and Graves, like Gravedigger, G-R-A-V-E-S. And then my website is simply christineckidder.com. And you can also email me at Christine at christineckidder.com. So, find me on LinkedIn. I think that's really the easiest. And I'm in the DMs all the time.

Mary Killelea: Thank you. Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number 2, little b, bolder.com.