Career Growth Advice from Vikki Espinosa, Career Development Leader | Career Tips for Women in Career Development

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 109
Featuring Vikki Espinosa

Episode Title: #109 Vikki Espinosa on Building Your Dream Career

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Vikki Espinosa



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Thanks for tuning in. Today's guest is Vikki Espinoza. Vikki is a career strategist, leadership transformation coach, writer, motivational speaker, and internationally recognized career development instructor. Vikki has earned an international business and marketing degree at Northeastern University in Boston, and after retiring from high tech and taking a year off to undergo breast cancer treatment, Vikki is doing great and is teaching at Portland Community College and pursuing her master's in education and preparation for entering a doctorate program in the fall of 2025.

And an interesting fact, Vikki was on Team USA from 2014 to 2016 when she missed making the Rio Paralympics in pair fencing by six points. In 2017, Vikki received the Workforce Magazine Silver Optima's Award for Innovation. In 2018, she received the Society of Women Engineers Spark Award for using her voice to promote diversity and mentorship and providing the tools, infrastructure, and inspiration for women to achieve their goals. Vikki lives in Portland, Oregon with her spouse and rescue dog Georgie. Vikki, so good to reconnect with you. Thanks for joining me today.

Vikki Espinosa (Guest): Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. It's so exciting to talk about being bolder.

Mary Killelea: Oh, awesome. Okay, so when we worked together at Intel, I know I reached out to you and wanted to learn about your career and I just thought you had the dream job. And so, tell everyone else the roles that you had at Intel and kind of where you were and where you are today.

Vikki Espinosa: Absolutely. So, my very first role at Intel was secretary to a secretary, which is what we used to call administrative assistants back then. I had a degree in international business and marketing. However, I was more than 12 months away from my graduation date when I moved to California with my then boyfriend, now husband. And Intel had a rule that new college grads or recent college grads had to be within 12 months of their graduation date to be considered. So, I ended up going in the side door and got a job as a temp secretary. And that was in 1991.

From there, I got a couple offers once they saw what I could do to work in America's marketing organization, basically taking orders over the phone for Intel's parts, or working in the finance department. So, I ended up taking the finance department and spent 20 years doing all sorts of things in Intel finance. And a lot of it was around our construction of our facilities. So, a lot of people don't understand that we do this, but we build our own fabs. Because our wafer fabrication plants are so high tech, there is no blueprint, there is no way to build it for or have other people who don't understand our business build it. So we have all of the people inside who lead the teams that understand what electrical needs we'll have, what mechanical needs we'll have, chemical needs, equipment, etc. And so I supported that finance organization for a long time, and I really enjoyed it. So that was my first 20 years.

When you and I met, I believe I was working in human resources in a group called Freelance Nation. And Freelance Nation was an experiment or a project that we took on to see if we could create a temp workforce using our regular employees. So, these employees would come in and they would work as freelancers, meaning they could work in any part of the company anywhere, using the skills that they had. They didn't need to be under an NDA or have any strange rules. They didn't have a huge ramp up because they knew the company, they understood the culture. So, I had 25 reporting to me and there were two other talent champions is what we called ourselves that had large teams as well. And we were really working to talk to these employees about their careers while they worked on assignments under other managers in different departments.

So, my whole job was really talking about career development with those 25 freelancers that reported to me. And that was so much fun. But if you think about it, 25 employees, even if each one of them wanted to see me every week for an hour, that's only 25 hours. And so most of them want to talk to me about career development once every two weeks or once a month, which left me with a lot of time to help others at Intel through the employee resource groups, through our mentoring program that we had inside Intel called Career Connections, volunteering to help out other departments and other groups, putting together conferences, those types of things, but really focusing on the development and self discovery work that is needed to be successful in a career.

Mary Killelea: Yes. And, okay, so I'm looking and I'm jotting down, you know, the Freelance Nation I thought was so innovative, and the career connections that Intel has, I do think is, like should be a model for every company out there.

Vikki Espinosa: I agree.

Mary Killelea: And I think it's fabulous that Intel invests and spends as much time as they do providing tools and support for people, but you have to self advocate for it, which I think a lot of people shy away from.

Vikki Espinosa: That's true. Yeah, we worked on Freelance Nation for three years. And as things changed, and we got a new leader, they decided to disinvest from that program and invest in some other things. So I ended up moving over to people operations in another division. And I was able to continue my work helping people grow as mentors, mentees, technologists and employees. And I was really heavily involved in the employee resource groups, including the Intel Latinx Network and the Intel, what is it, Network of African Ancestry, the women at Intel Network, all of those networks had conferences or events and did different things on career development. And I loved teaching job crafting, personal branding, how to find a mentor, how to be a better mentor, managing teams and individuals, all things that we aren't taught in school, but we need to know to be happy and successful at work.

Mary Killelea: Exactly. So I just got done taking the coaching excellence program, and I'm going to be doing the spot training, which I'm very excited about. Okay, so tell okay, today you are no longer an Intel and you've got your own coaching consultancy. Tell us about that, who you serve, and what makes you unique from other coaches, and then also how you decided to pivot.

Vikki Espinosa: Absolutely. I have a small business that it's just me. Sometimes I invite my friends in, and they help me with certain things. So, I have very talented friends from Intel and from outside. We support, or I do, because for companies that don't have large career development focus programs or classes. So, I'm available to build and deliver workshops that fit the needs of the hiring organization or group. And I also consult on a variety of human resource related topics and love to teach job crafting classes. And if you're in the Portland area, you can go to my website, and I don't have it posted yet, but I will be teaching another one this summer, which is a wonderful way to really understand how to craft your job, the one that you have today, into something that fulfills you more deeply using your strengths, your values, and your passions.

I also work one-on-one with coaching clients. So, if you're interested in having a career development coach, oftentimes three or four meetings is enough to get you back on track or on your way or dig into the things that are confusing you or making it difficult for you. And I believe what makes me unique is this ability to connect with all employees, regardless of level or experience. I've worked with brand new employees that are just coming in from a college program or degree program or have transferred from other companies all the way up to director level and vice presidents, really helping them think about their people and themselves in this career development space. So, I do this thing called what I call aggressive listening. So very, very focused on listening to you and then asking lots of questions to get deeper into what it is you need. And sometimes it's as simple as hearing what you're not saying to yourself and really pulling that out and showing that to you. And I'm told that I listen in this deeper, different way than other consultants, and I'm able to translate what you need into practical and tactical actions that are easy to complete and enable that forward movement that you're looking for. So I can tell you how to put one foot in front of the other and move forward.

Mary Killelea: Oh, I wish you I could have met you 20 years ago. So what career issues or frustrations do you most commonly hear from your clients?

Vikki Espinosa: Oh, yeah. Most common is unhappiness with their work situation. And since a job is made up of two things, the things you do and the people you do it with, it can really be dealing with difficult people, managers or colleagues, or not loving the work that you're doing and having no clue where to start to figure out what needs to change. So it's either the people or it's actually the job.

The second most common is not knowing the rules of the game at your company. You don't know how to move up, you don't know how to change roles, you don't know who the decision makers are, you're not clear on who you need to connect with, who can advocate for you, who can mentor you. So those are the most common things I hear.

Mary Killelea: So that's interesting, because I know you know the rules and the people within Intel, but how do you coach someone outside of Intel on those topics?

Vikki Espinosa: So that's where we talk about how you need a personal board of directors, and you need to start filling the seats. And so I might be the career development person, the person who sits in that seat, but you may need a political coach, someone who coaches you about the politics at your company. And so you need to figure out who the right person might be to help you figure that out. You might need someone who sits outside your group but knows enough about it to give you an idea of who the power players are. So, if you're closed off to that or haven't experienced that, you need to fill those different seats.

And then there's of course other seats with them. The person you call before you go on stage who's going to pump you up and get you ready for your big presentation. The person who's going to pick you up off the floor when things went wrong and badly and you're beating yourself up and you need some empathy and some support. So, you should have this board of directors in mind, all these people that are going to support you through your 40 years of your career. You're not going through it alone. And there are people that you can use their expertise and their support to get you to those places you want to go.

Mary Killelea: That's awesome. I was looking at your website and in your blog, you talk about functional resume. And I never had heard that term before. So, can you define that and give us all tips on writing an effective resume?

Vikki Espinosa: Absolutely. And it's going to be different for each person, but functional resumes are really best for people who've worked for many years or whose most recent job is not related to the next job they want to move towards.

So I'll give you an example. One of my friends worked in construction with me for many years and then decided to go teach high school. After about 10 years of teaching high school, she wanted to go back into construction management. But when she sent out her traditional resume that was done chronologically, people stopped reading when they saw a high school teacher. They're like, huh, why is she applying for this? Who cares? And they were tossing her resume. So, she wasn't getting any calls or interest as she searched for a new job, which was crazy. So, I sat her down and we talked about functions and we looked at all the experience she had that was related to what was in her resume. So, in the back part of her resume. And then we looked at the job requisition and said, okay, they're looking for evidence that you know how to do this and this and this. So, let's grab these things and move them up. So, project management, we put construction examples from deeper in her resume under a header of construction management. And we kept going until we had picked five to seven things that she could pick and choose from depending on the requisition that she was applying for. And we put those down and showed her results in those areas, running, giant million dollar budgets for Intel, all the things she had done. And then at the very bottom, we listed all her roles and titles and the timeline. People didn't go that far to read that far. So they most of them missed the fact that she was a high school teacher at the time. And she had interviews lined up pretty quickly as she changed her resume.

Mary Killelea: I love that approach. And it's so personal and so important to tailor it to the job you're going for. I love that advice. What skills do you think are essential for career growth today, regardless of the area of business that someone's in?

Vikki Espinosa: All right, I'm going to start with the one that I talk about all the time, knowing yourself. So self-discovery and being happy and confident with your skill set and your interests. I can't tell you how many people I've seen trying to adjust themselves to fit into a business or role. And when they get into it, they're miserable because they basically squeeze themselves in to a pair of pants, a job that is, you know, three sizes too small or the wrong shape for their body or whatever it is. And so unhappy. So you have to really sit with who am I, what do I love? What do I not enjoy? Where am I good? When am I on fire? And will this job allow me to do those things? And then once you have a good handle on what you like and you don't like, being able to have good career conversations with managers and mentors is also really important. Sitting down and saying, I love doing this work. This stuff that you've assigned me is great. I'm happy, excited, energized, curious, et cetera.

However, this work over here, I've been doing it for the past six months. It was great to add this knowledge to my portfolio. However, I'd really like to pass it along to someone else, someone else who needs to learn this or who would benefit from this information or might enjoy doing this work. And you also need to be able to say, and I'm really curious about what's going on behind that closed door over there. And I'd like to see if I can support or help and try that next.

And if you're first starting out, if you're like brand new to the workforce or you just came out of academia or something else is going on, try lots of things. Say yes new opportunities as long as you can deliver on time. Make sure you have the support you need, a mentor, an on the job trainer, a manual, a book, whatever, something that's going to help you be successful and make sure you reach out to be coached and mentored. Ask for help, ask questions, and then make sure that you ask appropriate questions at the right time from the right people. Sometimes we ask questions in the meeting when we should be waiting and catching them outside or asking them to set up time so that we can go through what our questions are. So don't derail anything, but make sure you're going after the right people to ask those questions.

Mary Killelea: You bring up so many good points. And I think I felt people cringing out there when you said you have the opportunity to tell your boss, you're grateful for doing this, but you'd really like to pass that on. Because I think that scares people at the thought of telling their boss they don't like something. But the way you said it was what other opportunities can I take on, kind of that trade off. So, you're not looking like, it's not about you being a slacker. It's not about you saying you've got more work than you can handle. It's just really gravitating to what fills you up.

Vikki Espinosa: And you could also wrap it as a present for the next person. I learned blah, blah, blah, these things, A, B, C, D, from doing this activity. I'm grateful for the opportunity to learn those things. However, I'm ready for something new. Who needs to learn these things? Who needs to hone these skills? Who could you provide the development opportunity to while taking this away from me so I can do something else?

Mary Killelea: I love that. Can you share any tips or tricks when it comes to changing jobs? I mean, you talked a little bit about the functional resume, but there's a lot of people pivoting, especially post COVID and with the recent layoffs. So, any advice you have for changing jobs, especially with AI, I mean, AI is changing everything.

Vikki Espinosa: So, first things first, determine what you want to change. So, what are you hoping to do differently? What are your needs? What's non-negotiable? Where can you flex? Is having a great manager the most important thing for you? Or is it the opportunity to do something cutting edge and new? Do you want to specialize, or do you want to do lots of things? Are you a multi-potentialite, someone who loves to learn something to its depths, get really good at it and go, okay, I learned that and now I need a new topic. I want to do something else.

Really get clear on two or three things that you're trying to accomplish next, and then talk to others to get a good sense of what it is they like and don't like about it. Doesn't mean that you will like or not like those same things, but hearing opinions on those things like, oh, you don't like that. Ooh, I do like that. It's just like food or anything else we try for the first time. Oh, it's very sour. Ooh, I like sour. Oh, you don't like sour. Okay.

Mary Killelea: What is your point of view on being a generalist or specialist and the career, I guess, monetization, to me, you can make more if you're a specialist, but there are fewer roles for that opportunity.

Vikki Espinosa: Well, I don't know. It's debatable. Yeah. Because at some point, if you are well-rounded, if you know lots of things about how things work, you're more valuable than the specialist. If you know where the ins come in and the outs go out and who's in charge of what, and if I push this button, does it break something three teams over? If you have this better general, bigger view, which is what we expect as you move up, as you move up, you should understand how things work and value the different specialties around you. And if you don't know those things and you're extremely myopic, you're only going to get so far.

Mary Killelea: That is really interesting. And I'm so glad that you shared that because I am more of a generalist, but I thought it's held me back. But I like how you said that. It's putting the onus on me to capitalize and leverage my generalist's knowledge.

Vikki Espinosa: That's right. And you can say that oftentimes when you look at a rec, you'll see 20 things listed. You're like, oh, I can nail 16 of those. Hopefully you can be curious about the other four.

Mary Killelea: Perfect. Yeah, no, that's awesome. So again, I went back to your blog because I found it very interesting. In one of your posts, you mentioned words to stop using when you were trying to get ahead in your career. What are those words?

Vikki Espinosa: Sort of, kind of, basically, like when I tell you that I like really doing like those things, don't use the word like, unless it's I like chocolate. What I'm trying to say, my point is, just, sometimes I think and I feel are inappropriate. So it depends. Those are context sensitive. I will try instead of I will. Oh, the worst one. I may be wrong. But. But negates anything you said before it. So anything you said before the word, but you just blew up. Don't you think or ending a sentence with right? Starting one with actually. And if you're in a very data driven numbers organization, using nearly and almost.

Mary Killelea: That is such a good point.

Vikki Espinosa: Don't use those. And then the last ones are the fillers. Umm, Uhh.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. I love that you're going back to school and you plan on getting your doctorate and I have so much admiration for education in general. So why are you going back to get that extra schooling and how's that going to serve you in your practice?

Vikki Espinosa: Oh, thanks for asking. Because I had to really think about this when my husband looked at me with big wide eyes and said, what? And so, here's my answer.

As I finished my career at Intel, that was January of 2023. As I sat there mulling over my 31 and a half years in high tech, I realized that I was happiest when I was teaching others. In fact, when people ask me, what is it? It's that light bulb moment when I see a student's eyes light up and they know what they want to do next, or they grasp a concept that is new or had eluded them. I just finished teaching the business skills in the Portland Community College's semiconductor essentials class that we put on for the first time. We are giving 17 to 24 year old students a taste of what you'll learn and do as a manufacturing technician. And we're really hoping to invite them to study at PCC so they can enter the workforce at one of the many manufacturing companies in the Silicon Forest here in Oregon.
So, I realized I have a lot of knowledge and skill that I picked up on the job. I learned from my wonderful colleagues from classes, from YouTube, from trying things and getting feedback from students. However, I didn't learn how to teach adults in any formal way. And I want to fill in some of those gaps now and really think about new approaches and new ways to attract talents to programs that will bolster America's manufacturing industries. And that's, I think, after being at Intel for so long.

I also want to do research, hence the graduate degree, and develop some ideas and things that we can do tactically and practically to intercept students earlier to teach them self-confidence, self-discovery, and how to challenge the status quo of going to college immediately after high school. I'd really like to see more students try a variety of things before they lock in and spend money on their education and get themselves into terrible debt. And that's why classes like the five-week semiconductor essentials training are so important. We want to give people the opportunity to explore and see if they're interested in vacuums, pumps, pneumatics, electricity, high-tech equipment, and then tour a factory and decide to go for a certificate first. I have met so many confused, unhappy, and sad employees who question their schooling decisions and have a hard time hearing their own voice because the voice of their parents, their mentors, their professors, and other people are rattling around in there. You should do this. You should try that. You should, you should, you should versus I could and I want to. So, I would like to research and develop new programs and enable students to find their path while building confidence and satisfaction along the way.

Mary Killelea: Oh my gosh, that sounds amazing and very purpose-driven and it triggers so many thoughts in my head, but I guess I'll follow up with this question. You know, I think the students coming out of school today or even just the young adults in general, like for me and my generation, it was you went to high school, you went to college, you got a job, you knew the path. Today it seems like, well, one, things are so expensive, but two, technology is changing so fast. What advice do you tell young adults about the different pathways in which they can take? I think, you know, you were a great example of how you were able to work for a corporation and go from one career to another career, you know, into finance, into HR. What about the kids who want to go maybe trade school or are questioning the value of going to school?

Vikki Espinosa: Yeah, I think for some people, school might not be the reason for. Whether they have a learning disability, whether they learn easier touching things and trying things out versus sitting in a classroom and listening or watching videos or those types of things. Some of us have to touch and try and do to learn, and that's where trade schools and those kinds of things can be really helpful. In fact, my nephew decided to become a welder, and you can't outsource welding, right?

Mary Killelea: Right.

Vikki Espinosa: So I think he'll do really well, and he's excited and he's really enjoying studying the whole science and the details behind welding. So if I were to sit down with younger students now, and what I would tell them is go get yourself the prettiest, coolest notebook you can find, something that you really want to carry around for the next, I don't know, 10, 15 years, and in there, this is your self-discovery notebook, and this is where you collect thoughts about career and yourself starting now. I did this thing that I loved. I loved it because I got to do this or it had this or that. It's a place to reflect after learning new things. Tell yourself about yourself. Write it down. Find and rely on more mentors. Your parents can connect you with all of their friends and all the people they know. The people you played on the soccer team with, some of them are doctors, some of them are lawyers, some of them are engineers, some of them do all sorts of different things, some sell real estate, whatever it is. Think about talking to them and ask them questions about what they love and hate about their careers.

As you start to home in on what you're thinking about, reach out and talk to people ahead of you in their careers. So maybe some students that are five years ahead of you, maybe some people in the workforce that are 10 years ahead of you, and start asking questions and building this portrayal of what you're interested in. Now, make sure you don't lock yourself in. It doesn't have to be one thing. It can be three things. It can be, I want to be a librarian, I want to be a software engineer, and I want to be a deep sea diver. Totally fine. But make sure that you're thinking in general about what do you love, what do you hate, what are you good at? What do people say, wow, that was amazing, nice job. Sit and reflect and go, oh, what skills did I use? Why was that great for me? Why to have a great outcome? I love the energized.

Mary Killelea: I love the journal idea. Yeah, I love that. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Vikki Espinosa: I loved this question. To ask the questions that are burning. We all have questions that we're afraid to ask or we're nervous or whatever it is or we're afraid it'll make us look dumb or stupid or ignorant or whatever. We freak out. Being bolder is asking those questions and then finding ways to collaborate and reach out to more people because together we are better, and we can try more things. We can fail faster. Being bolder also means dusting myself off and keep moving even when life knocks me down. I always tell, I told my kids this, I said, you can be sad and unhappy and mad for five minutes. Cry, pound the floor, scream into a pillow, do whatever it is you got to do to get through that awful feeling and then sit down and try and figure out what you're going to do next.

Mary Killelea: Keep moving forward.

Vikki Espinosa: Keep moving forward.

Mary Killelea: How would you define a personal brand? I love talking about personal brand development and in your opinion, how essential is personal brand building and any advice you have for those listening on this topic?

Vikki Espinosa: Love talking about this. So personal brand is critical when you are trying to go in a different direction or establish yourself as the person who does the thing, whatever it is. The most important part of personal brand is authenticity. Bringing and being your fully authentic self unapologetically and being very clear on what your brand is. So, I like to start with the five words. Have you heard this one? What five words do you want people to use to describe you? So, if I were to describe you, what five words would I use?

Mary Killelea: Are you asking me?

Vikki Espinosa: Well, you can answer today or you can think about it.

Mary Killelea: I'll think about it. I know it's not about me. Go ahead. Keep going.

Vikki Espinosa: So think about those five words. You can send out a survey put together through one of these online things. Hey, my name comes up. What are the first five descriptive words that come up when you think of me? How would you describe me to someone who doesn't know me in a room that I'm not in? And then get that and build a word cloud or put them in Excel and see which ones are the most common. And then take a look at that and say, do I want to be known as that? And for those five words that you're like, yep, yep, I like these, start to weave them into your speech, your writing, your resume, your LinkedIn profile and your online presence.

Mary Killelea: I like that advice.

Vikki Espinosa: So if it's being bold, then you should be using bold in your speech, in your writing, in your resume, etc. If that's what you want people to remember you about. And what you'll find is within, I don't know, 60 days of starting this, people will start to describe that, and you'll hear it come back in other ways. And that's what you're after.

The other thing is if you don't have a LinkedIn presence, that is how we do business. That is how we look people up, know things about people, etc. Make sure that as you're scrolling LinkedIn, or as you're posting or cross posting or writing or whatever you're doing, that those things that you touch, like liking something, have to do with your brand. So, I don't click anything that isn't career development oriented, getting a new job, personal brand, job crafting, etc. That stay in your lane. Because then when you show up in someone's feed, it's consistent.

Mary Killelea: I'm very intentional with that too. So I'm glad you brought that up.

Vikki Espinosa: Yeah, it's important.

Mary Killelea: Okay, so this is something that I think is crazy, but I think some people who aren't in the corporate world may not know. But any tips on adapting to ambiguity? Because when you're working in a fast paced atmosphere or a big corporation, often we hear we're building the plane as we fly it. And it can be so stressful to those who aren't used to that, working within an ambiguous situation. Any advice?

Vikki Espinosa: Yes. Again, this goes back to self-discovery. So, some of us are good with ambiguity. We're good with ambiguity. We like cutting edge, we like figuring things out, we like bringing order to chaos. In fact, we might even feed off it. It invigorates us. For others, it can be exhausting, or hard, or frustrating, or even depressing. So, if ambiguity is what's going on in the group, or the assignment, or where you are, and ambiguity is not your thing, then you need another job. You need to really understand what you thrive on. And it's okay. Your trash could be someone else's treasure. That's usually the way it works. It's the way it works at garage sales. Someone comes and they pick up a mug and they look at it, you want 25 cents for that? And you're thinking, yeah, I don't care. And they're thinking, oh my God, it's the last one for my collection. I would have paid $1,000 for it.

It's the same thing for activities and work that we do. And that's why there are so many jobs and so many opportunities and so many things to do. You do not have to work in ambiguity.

Mary Killelea: What advice do you have about resilience and maintaining it? And how have you been able to do it over your career?

Vikki Espinosa: I'd like to start with resilience is a muscle that you grow or build. It's not something that you are automatically resilient. It really depends on how you grew up, where you were raised, what things happened to you, the role models that you had around you, how you saw other people handle challenges, et cetera. So, we grow our resiliency and ability to be resilient. And it can start young. It can start after high school, first job, et cetera.

I lost my dad in a plane crash really early in my career. So, he was piloting a plane, something he had done for 27 years and something went wrong and he died. And I found out at work, and it was shocking. I think it was after my first year at Intel. My dad was Superman to me. He could fix anything, sail large sailboats on the open ocean, fly planes. And he was curious and super smart. And we got into some crazy situations with both the boat and the plane and we came out of them without issue because he had so much knowledge and capability. And those are stories for another day.

But the point is losing him at 24 was the beginning of my resilience journey. And many other things have happened to me. We talked about breast cancer. I also had a soccer accident that made me eligible for parafencing when my knee was fully dislocated during a game and I lost my ACL, MCL and PCL all in one fell swoop. Yeah, I have nerve damage that keeps me from being able to lift my toes. But knowing that what doesn't kill me makes me stronger. I think that's one of the things that I look to. And I believe there's a reason for everything. I believe that every poor manager I had, every bad assignment or job that I had, there's a reason for all of that. And I take lessons and learning from everything, the good and the bad, the good and the not so great. And from that, I hope that I can teach others from my example of what not to do or help them through or maybe avoid making the same mistakes I did.

Mary Killelea: You have been so inspiring and it has been fantastic to reconnect with you. And I have so many more questions. I'll have you back on the show. But how can someone get in touch with you?

Vikki Espinosa: Sure. The easiest way is to connect with me on LinkedIn, but put in the little note thing. Don't just connect. Send me a little note and say why you want to connect. I usually decline if I don't know who you are and I can't see a connection. So feel free to let me know what fascinates you enough to want to connect.

And talk to me about one thing I said or that you read that you want to explore and learn more about. I'm happy to talk to folks, mentor them, etc. I am retired. I do start school June 24th. So, if you want to talk to me, you'll probably get my attention before then. After that, I don't know because I have no idea what my workload is going to look like for school.

Mary Killelea: Well, thank you. And I think the timing was perfect. I caught you before school. I'd love that you're on this new adventure. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Continued success and thank you so much.

Vikki Espinosa: Thank you. And if people want to read anything I've written on LinkedIn or you can go to my website, vikkiespinoza.com.

Mary Killelea: Perfect.

Vikki Espinosa: Thank you.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number 2, little bbolder.com.