Career Growth Advice from Diana Khan, Real Estate Law Leader | Career Tips for Women in Real Estate Law

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 113
Featuring Diana Khan

Episode Title: #113 Diana Khan, Attorney Shares Her Journey of Entrepreneurial Success

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Diana Khan



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Welcome to another episode of the To Be Bolder podcast, where we celebrate and learn from the stories of inspirational women who have succeeded in business and tech fields. I'm your host, Mary Killelea, and today we have an extraordinary guest, Diana Kahn. Diana is a distinguished attorney, real estate broker, and entrepreneur based in Owings Mills, Maryland. She is the founder and CEO of DK Law Group, specializing in estate planning and real estate law.

With over 15 years of expertise, Diana manages seven successful companies and holds a JD, MBA, and MPA from the University of Baltimore. She has been named an ABA on the rise, top 40 lawyer, and is the top producer in the real estate industry. Diana is actively involved in her community and dedicated to empowering her clients through comprehensive legal services. Diana, wow, you're a busy gal.

Diana Khan (Guest): Stupid, maybe. I don't know. I have three young kids. I have three young kids, and I don't really know if I'm avoiding my kids by just keeping myself busy or trying to show them that you can do it all, but like only half-ass, because when you have young kids, there's no perfection.

Mary Killelea: I can so relate to that. Oh my gosh, I had my own business and did that for 16 years, and I never felt like I was doing either at optimal, but I loved each of them equally.

Diana Khan: Yeah, it's a lot. There's definitely moments where I try my best to be home for bedtime, and I was sitting there on my laptop last night, and my four-year-old still shares a bed with me. I'm on my laptop every time they go to sleep, and my six-year-old comes into the room. He's like, mommy, why do you love work so much? And I'm sitting there having an existential crisis as he asked me this, and I'm like, what do you mean? I was home for bedtime. I'm here just on my laptop. It's fine.

Mary Killelea: Well, okay, let's start out by having you tell us a little bit about your background and what initially drew you to pursue a career in law and real estate.

Diana Khan: Sure. So I mean, it's a weird background, right? I grew up with a mom that basically said you have to be a lawyer or a doctor. There are no other options, and good for her because my brother's a surgeon. I'm a lawyer. She did something right, but I think my mom focused a lot about achievements, so it was, to me, it's like, I'm a little numb when people are like, oh my goodness, you're so impressive. Well, I'm impressive because that was the expectation, right? It was just like, that's what you gotta be. So I've always sort of been accomplished.

I think the big differences in the last five years, I feel accomplished, and I think that women don't really look at it as the same concept, but it is different concepts, right? I've always been very smart. I've always done really well in school. I've always been successful in a way, but I've always been chasing a drive that somebody else set forth for me. And in the last five years, I really sat down and sort of pivoted my practice to sort of do what I enjoy, and it has been breathtaking. It has been a breath of fresh air in a lot of ways, but also a little chaotic because you don't realize how successful you can be once you're done chasing somebody else's dream and just sort of focusing on what you wanna do.

Mary Killelea: I love that. I absolutely love that. If you just naturally, what's the word I'm looking for? If you naturally respect your grace and skills naturally, I think the success just does come because it seems effortless. And I'm so glad that you're taking a moment, not that it's easy, but that it's effortless in the sense that you're using your abilities because you want to. I think that's a beautiful thing.

Diana Khan: Yeah. And it's refreshing because I feel like I've always tried to adhere to what you're supposed to do. And once I stopped trying to do that, I found myself a little better. I might be making or taking the same actions, but I'm not staying up or hyper obsessing about, did I do it right or wrong or what about this? I'm working every day to practically be comfortable in what I do, even if it's not the right outcome to just be okay with it and sit with it. And I think a lot of women need to get there, whether or not it's in business or friendship or children, whatever it is that you're working on, you really need to get there because otherwise you could be president of the United States or you could be running the entire country. It's never gonna be enough.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, I totally agree. So what inspired you to establish the DK Law Group and what have been some of your milestones that you really, I think, kind of seeded in your mind as successes as you had that journey?

Diana Khan: So I started off in real estate first, but I went to law school second. I was really successful at real estate. And then I decided to go to law school because again, my mom was very intent on that happening. And I went to law school and I was like, I am never gonna do real estate law. It's just never gonna happen. And I purposely tried to push away from real estate, tried to push away from doing my own thing. And I got a job at like a Top 100 law firm and I was doing the thing. I was doing what you're supposed to do. And I remember I took on this like divorce case. And as an associate, my hourly billable, I think at that time were $595 or $695. And we had to bill a certain amount of hours a week. And for those of you who are not lawyers, when you bill 40 hours, you're working close to 80. Right? So, you know, we had this client and they were, I think they were rich. I was not rich at that time. I don't think I'm rich now, but they were a lot well, well off for me. And they in like two weeks figured out how they're gonna divide all of their assets. And I was like, okay, this is super easy.

And then they started fighting over a vase. I cannot make this up. It was a vase. I represented the husband and he wanted this vase. And my boss said, just bill them and keep going. And I billed this man so much money. I mean, there was a point where I did the math that he had bought the vase in Las Vegas with his ex-wife. If they had flown me to Las Vegas, had gambled all weekend and lost because I'm horrible at gambling. But when you went and come back, it would have been cheaper.

And, you know, it took time away from my family, took time away from everything. I ended up winning the vase in court and he waited till his ex-wife came outside, threw it on the floor, broke it and said it was worth every penny. And then he used an expletive and I quit my job. I couldn't, I went home to my husband and I was like, I cannot work for corporate America. I cannot do this. I can't. I just can't. So I had no plan B. I had no plan B. I just knew that that did not feel good to me. It took time away from everything I did. So, I sort of defaulted back to real estate because that's what I was good at. And I was like, I'm not going to do law anymore. It's not good. It's just, I'm not doing it. I got really successful at real estate, and I very slowly but surely noticed that I became the it attorney for people to call, but I didn't have a law practice.

So, then I was like, you know what, it's time for me to break away. And that's when I kind of opened DK Law and I was like, you know, I'm not going to, I have my real estate, I have my businesses, I'm successful in title, I'm successful in all of these things. I'm going to create a law firm that's a little different, that's going to feel very different. And it worked out really well for me. It's, you know, I break from the norm. And sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad, but I find that people talk about it. And I'm very proud of what we've built. And that's kind of, you know, it's evolved very quickly. And I think because I do it and I enjoy it, it's just growing very fast.

Mary Killelea: So I'm curious, you break from the norm. Tell me more about that.

Diana Khan: So, you know, it's actually really funny, we have a commercial running right now. And when you think lawyer and commercial, you think, you know, the suits, and you think them walking down like a city street, and then you see like, you know, the little like lettering at the bottom. That's what you think of a law commercial. And my commercial is me and my staff, wearing very casual clothing, basically, chaotically sitting in an office talking about what a great commercial we should do. And my staff is saying ridiculous things like, well, why don't we just say, DK Law, we've got your back. And then in, in an Office theme, I go, guys, we just say that we're the best that we're like different, we're breaking the norm. And then we have a white screen, and then we break that barrier and look into the screen. And that's where my logo goes. And this is just something that lawyers don't see. But to make it better, the white screen, we have the screen rotating between two versions. One of them is a somebody going bar with our logo. And the other one is me going, that's it. That's the commercial.

So it's just not normal, right? And people are seeing it, they don't know what to do with themselves. They're like, are you a law firm? Like, I don't understand what's going on here. And I'm like, listen, if it doesn't appease you, I'm not your type of lawyer. But for the most part, my client base are people who feel like attorneys are stuffy, they don't know how to approach them. I'm breaking that norm, I'm making it, you know, call me, text me, whatever. I'm human just like you. If my hair is up in a bun, I have not showered. And if you're not okay with me telling you that I'm not going to be a good lawyer for you, because I curse and I'm not refined, but I'm very good at what I do.

Mary Killelea: So. I love it. I love it. So do you think, I'm assuming like you embrace risk and you love, you don't worry about controversy. And I mean that not in like a bad way, but like, you know, you're willing to take risks. And do you think the confidence of your intelligence helps you do that? I think so. Yeah. I mean, I think it's hard, you know, when you are doing really well, people want to hate on you. Right. And I think whether or not it's intelligent or just confidence, you need to have it. Because if you're doing things right, and I say this to my clients all the time, if you're doing things right, you're going to get sued. If you're doing things right, people are going to hate on you.

So, you know, I remember I got our first hate comment on Facebook, and I took a screenshot of it and I sent it to my employees. And they're like, why are you excited? Like these people are talking badly about you. And I was like, we've made it. They're talking about I was like, right. And like, I was like, we could choose to be upset about it. Or we could just acknowledge the fact that somebody out there hated the commercial enough, they found our social media and commented on it.

Just today, I had an attorney on the other side. He was very abrasive. I mean, he was not a nice man. I sent him an email. It was very professional. It just said, hey, I've been retained. Here's my issues. Because he's the attorney. But he's also he was the one being a jerk. And I think he was using his legal degree to like, jerk my clients around. And I called him on the phone. And he right off the bat told me my commercial is unprofessional. He started cursing at me about like, how it could possibly be like this, you know, this idiotic. It was just like a whole thing. So, I hung up on him, I emailed him and I said, you know, without your respect, let's stick to email. I think it's better. And then he responded and said, I don't agree with your take on what you said happened on the phone. But I still find your commercial very unprofessional. And like me and my friends were sitting around making fun of it. And, you know, I feel like it's not intelligence. It's just holding your head high.

So I did what any normal person would do. I responded back and said that we all have differences of opinion of marketing expertise. And I appreciate the feedback. And then I passed aggressively said, I'm glad you saw the commercial I myself am busy representing my clients and don't watch daytime TV. I've never actually been able to see it during the TV. And perhaps if you focus on getting more clients, you yourself would not have time to watch TV during the day. I'm very proud of that one.

Mary Killelea: Ouch.

Diana Khan: And, you know, it's intelligence, but it's also just being comfortable, be comfortable with knowing when to say I'm sorry, when to say it didn't work. And to know when your hard line is. For those of you who know me or like, have heard this before, I have a quick 90 day rule, do something for 30 days where you try something new, the next 30 days, perfect it. If it's not working by the time you hit day 60, start winding it down or winding up more depending on working or not. And be afraid to take challenges and differences because it's what makes the difference.

Mary Killelea: I love that. There's a lot to unpack there, but I love that discussion. What does a typical day look like for you owning seven different businesses and having all this on your plate?

Diana Khan: Pivot and triage. Those are my two words, right? You can't do everything. You can't be everything for everyone. And you're going to make mistakes. And seven businesses is quite a lot. And sometimes I'm human and don't have good days. So pivot and triage is a lot. Like there's only so much time in a day and there's always everybody around you, including yourself and those around you are working or doing something as a sacrifice for something else.

So knowing that I start my days with the intent of what I'm going to do that day. And then I know that if I get 10% of it done, it's a good day because I'm going to pivot and triage to my day. If I have a client who has an issue, it might take my whole day away and my staff needs to adapt to that. Or if you have somebody call out, there's a lot of pivot and triage and you just have to embrace it. And that's kind of my day every day. I start my day with my kids. I do breakfast with them. And then I actually don't look at my calendar very much the day prior. I know that sounds crazy, but I have like 10 minutes, 15 minutes increments of stuff to do. And I have staff who book my calendar and I try not to look at it more than a day ahead of time because I'm going to get overwhelmed. So it's just, what am I doing today? Where am I supposed to be? And then if I can't make it to all, it's like, how do we triage this and like get rid of some of it? And if I looked at the big picture, I would sit in a corner and cry. So it's just support yourself with the ability to pivot and triage, have grace, and then surround yourself with people who can help when you are fully in a corner crying like I do sometimes.

Mary Killelea: I appreciate you saying that because I think for the listeners who think you have a lot on your plate and they could never accomplish it or they feel burdened with their own list of tasks, it is a good perspective to hear from you and how you approach it. Can you run through the different businesses that you have without getting too deep into all of them?

Diana Khan: So, I do property management, which is the idea of you get a rental property and you hire somebody to do the handyman, the construction work, all of that. So, we do that. We oversee about 600 doors in the state of Maryland. We have a construction company that goes hand in hand with the property management and we also do commercial buildouts. So, you know, big buildings, all of that.

I have the law firm, which does the real estate, estate planning aspect of it. And then we also do the occasional business planning. We have a title company. Title companies focus on the aspect of the real estate where we ensure transactions that go to settlement.

And then we have three real estate brokerages, one that focuses on traditional sales, one that focuses on investor sales, and then one that focuses more on what we call like luxury brand upscale items. So, it's quite a lot, but we they're all kind of vertically integrated. And I am now working on a coaching business where I'm starting to talk more nationwide. I have some speaking. I'm going to it's going to sound like I'm speaking with Oprah. No, Oprah and I will be breathing the same air in a room together. So I'm trying to do a little bit more coaching and help women sort of figure out what works for them.

Mary Killelea: That's amazing. That's amazing. That really is so impressive. What have been some of your biggest challenges that you faced in your career and how have you approached overcoming them?

Diana Khan: You know, a couple years ago, I realized that while I've always been successful and I've always built businesses, but I think I, my mom got really sick. And in that timeframe, I realized how much of what I was doing was based on my upbringing and sort of a lot of my own issues. So, while I was successful, I hadn't really come to terms with some of the things that make my dynamic me. And I was surrounded with a lot of guilt and a lot of things I did. I was surrounded with business partners because I didn't believe in myself or, you know, I was doing a lot of things within my own issues. So when my mom got really sick and made me do a deep dive into those issues, and I changed a lot about my approaches.

while I still have these businesses, you know, I don't really look at money as much anymore. I didn't grow up with a lot of it. So I always used to like refine myself with what is the biggest way to monetize something. Now it's sort of like, well, if I'm monetizing something and I'm making more money, that's great. But if it doesn't feel good, I'm going back to a habit of just trying to do things that limit me to who I used to be. So when my mom got really sick, it's like, it's not really about her getting sick. It's more about the terms that I had with myself and realizing the challenges of how much I was leaning on nature versus nurture, things that my mom had taught me that maybe weren't accurate or things that, you know, I was always like the primary caretaker in my family. I'm the primary caretaker still in my businesses and everything. But I was doing that at the expense of myself. So now I don't, I think that was the biggest challenge is just finding how to do the businesses where it's not the expense of myself, but rather when I make decisions, I'm more comfortable and they're more like gut wrenching to the fact that I'm comfortable with what I'm doing.

Mary Killelea: And that's wonderful. And I think that so many women can relate to what you just said about not putting themselves first. And I am inspired by the work that you've done on yourself. And I think just people are more open to doing work on themselves and listening and trying to learn and take better care of themselves, which I think kind of was one of the outcomes of COVID. I don't know. How important is building a personal brand?

Diana Khan: So, if you look me up from two years ago, I had no brand, none. And I would have told you, it doesn't really matter. You're going to use me for whatever reason. But I think that I have to eat my words and say that it really does matter because personal brand, at least for me was never a thing. Now I have, you know, the Instagram, the Facebook, I've got people commenting and it's like this like massive turnout of people saying, I see you everywhere. You're everywhere. They want to take pictures with me. So, I think a personal brand really matters as far as being the grow, because I think we have perception of what personal branding looks like.

I will say that I resent it a little bit because people come up to me a lot that have not, you know, I've been in the same circles with them for years. Now they're taking selfies and like, it's a little weird. But I think you need it. I think in this day and age, people like to see real and I think having a personal brand that is reflected there is important because I can buy from Walmart, I can buy from Target, or I can buy from the girl next door. But I want to buy from the person I like the most. And if, if you're genuine, and you wear that, that's great. And I think that that's what people want to see.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, I tell I'm a big, huge advocate of personal brand and creating your own narrative. So others don't create it for you.

Diana Khan: Yeah. Yeah. And I was gonna say, it's also difficult. You have seven businesses, right? It's difficult. So, I've been, it's like, sometimes I tell people, it's almost like an identity crisis, because I can't be at all seven businesses at the same time. And everybody wants to work with me. So it's, it's when you get to a level, you got to work on a personal brand that complements your businesses, but then your businesses have to stand on their own as well. So, if you're like a multi-preneur, like I am, you have to get through that identity crisis, because there are certain people that want to work with you. And then there's people that only expect to work with you. And that becomes very difficult if you're branding yourself across multiple businesses. And that's when you have to realize, I have successful businesses, if you want my time, my value is higher.

And if you find that a lot of people love your personal branding, and they want to spend so much time with you, you're not charging enough, right? If you're like so stretched thin, you're not charging enough. You're making lots of people happy, which means that you should be charging more and less people should be in your life. I'm in the office right now. So, I have to expect my paralegal to stick her head in here and tell me that she, she heard me and we're charging more now.

Mary Killelea: I love it. Okay, networking, another hot topic for this podcast. It's crucial to any career. What are some effective networking tips or advice that you have for listeners that you've used in your career?

Diana Khan: If you really think about it, right, like, forget my page, because I have branded a little more than I think most people. But if you look at somebody's personal social media, they're going to share about their why. And I think a lot of the time we think that networking is about knowing what you do or knowing what how that person can benefit you. I think there's a lot to be said about working with somebody and knowing what they're about. So, I do a lot of, if I see something on social media about their dog or their kids, you're going to get a lot further if you remember that their kid went to a private school and just kind of bring that up naturally, and not force it. And I find that that that kind of networking works a lot more. You know, like wishing somebody a happy birthday and being genuine about it is going to have a lot more of an effect than getting a LinkedIn message that says, let me help you do x, I, I'm on all platforms, and my LinkedIn messages, I turned them off, I was like, not a single one of these people are getting by this.

Mary Killelea: I know, it can get spammy a little bit. Okay, we touched about it a tiny bit, but because it is so important confidence, and it plays such a significant role in professional success. What are the secrets for you building and having self-confidence?

Diana Khan: Nobody knows what they're doing. Literally, nobody knows what they're doing. If you're listening to this, and you're like, No, you really have it together. No, I don't. I don't have it together. Nobody has it together. You know, I'll just kind of tell you, this kind of little nugget is I my struggle right now with my law firm is I need another associate and I'm finding trouble hiring one. So, I'm outsourcing a lot to my friends to go to court for me. And, you know, we're all lawyers, and I will write them detailed emails with like, this is what you need to ask them the questions this. And I just I tell them like, this is really easy. And they'll respond back to be like, I can't do that. I've never done a real estate case before. And I'm like, Are you a lawyer? And they're like, yes. And I'm like, grow some, you know, like, nobody knows what they're doing. The first time I went in there, I read the questions just like you would, and just think on your toes, it's okay.

95% of the issue with confidence is people won't do it. And if you're not getting up and doing it, you're missing out. It doesn't matter if you do it right or wrong. 90% of it is just showing up. And it's, you know, owning it like I'm the first person to be like, Well, I just screwed up your name. That's awkward. I'm Diana. Do you remember meeting me? I'm so sorry. You know, own it when you make a mistake and just be yourself. Confidence is huge.

Mary Killelea: I love that response, because I've interviewed quite a few women. And that's a unique response. But it's so true. I appreciate that. What role does mentorship play in your career, both as a mentor and a mentee? And how has it shaped your professional journey?

Diana Khan: So I struggle finding a mentor that has been a struggle for me for a long time. It's the same thing as a therapist, I struggle finding a therapist who maybe I'm a narcissist, I don't know. But I think I struggle because I don't believe that one person can teach you anything. I think that everybody can teach you something. And I think if you humble yourself, knowing that you can find mentorship in everybody around you. I've had business partners who are no longer business partners with them, because maybe we've outgrown or anything like that. But you know what, I learned from one of them on how to prioritize my time. And that was the mentorship I got from her. If you find you're speaking to somebody and you're like, wow, how does that person do x? That's your opportunity. Ask right there. And I will tell you, people will want to answer the question. If you're genuine, and you just say, hey, I'm very impressed with how you did x. Can you tell me more about it? They will do it. They will help you.

And I think, again, I'm a little bit more mouthy. So for me, it's very easy. But I've gone up to people. There was a speaker, I went to an event one time, and I went up to him and I was like, I watched you speak. And with all due respect, everything you said during that speech was stupid. And he looked at me and he's like, what? And I was like, no, like you told people how to actively listen. Like, I can get that on Google. I was like, however, I was like, you had the entire room wrapped around your finger while you were speaking. And I was like, you had that room. And I was like, I don't really agree with what you said. But boy, do you have amazing speaking skills. And how do I learn that from you? And he looked at me and he's like, wow, you're really genuine, aren't you? I'm like, yes, would you teach me how to speak to a room like that? And you know what? Monday mornings at 9am, him and I sit down together and he tells me how to speak to my brand. And he helps me walk through that.

So it's not one mentor for me. I try to learn from everybody. And I try to openly ask, I think asking is the first step. I think a lot of people try to like pay for mentorship. Just ask. Yeah, most people will say yes. Most people want to help and they want to share. As far as mentoring, I hire a lot of younger individuals at my firm. And I just like law, I think you can teach almost everything to anybody. You just have to have the drive. So, I try to mentor anybody who wants to I'm like, listen, I will teach you what I do. You don't really need a law degree for a lot of it. Yes, some of it you have to know how to do right? Like that's why I went to law school. But I can teach you how to file. I can teach you how to do this. A lot of it is just the ability to learn. So, I mentor all the time. I mentor on everything. I people tell me that when I speak, I just like start training people and I'm like, that's a fact. I'm doing it right now.

Mary Killelea: I love it. Now I'm taking my notes. What advice would you give someone who's interested in pursuing a career in law or real estate?

Diana Khan: Don't do it.

Mary Killelea: I knew you're gonna say that!

Diana Khan: You know, follow people around and see if you want to do it. The I think there's this perception, at least I grew up with this perception that if you do x, you're going to make money or you're going to be successful because you're going to do x and y and all of that. And if you want to get into law, you want to get into real estate, find somebody and ask them if you can sit in with them. You can learn quite a lot. And it's not about learning how to sell a house. It's not about how do you do title work. But it's about learning whether or not you have the capability to want to show up and do this every day. You know, when I interview people for jobs, flat out, I tell them, I don't believe a single thing you're saying. They're like, what do you mean? And I'm like, listen, you've practiced for this interview, you're going to tell me you can multitask, you're going to tell me you're great at attention to detail. But the truth is, you've never worked at a law firm that oversees six other companies. And you've never had a client who's using us across six companies and is pissed at you, yelling at you on the phone about something. So you can tell me you're great with people. But until you have that exact fact pattern, you could be great with people except that this company because the materials that make it up and make it single like DNA strategy may not be for you.

So if you want to get into law, you want to get into real estate, get some exposure. What does that mean? What does it mean to be a lawyer? What exactly does it mean? And I'm not talking about showing up in a suit in court, what does it look like for the sacrifices you got to make? What is your, you know, what does it look like when you want to go to court and you also have to do X? Like ask the questions and really do a deep dive because again, a lawyer who graduates law school with an F or a lawyer who graduates law school with an A are still a lawyer, right? And define what success means to you and how would that work with whatever your goals are.

Mary Killelea: I think your coaching program is going to be magnificent, by the way.

Diana Khan: Thank you. I'm taking clients, if anybody's listening.

Mary Killelea: What does to be bolder mean to you?

Diana Khan: I mean, I think it's my life, right? Like that's what it is. I just, you know, I found your podcast and I was like, I need to be on it because that's, that's, I'm just all about be bold, break the norm, sort of do it different. And I think it's, it's in right now, whether or not it's on purpose or not, it's in right now to be bold, right? To be bolder, to like, admit, like just take over the world. Don't take over the entire world. Take over your world. You only have a short time here and just make the most of it.

Mary Killelea: Fantastic. What advice would you give your 20 year old self?

Diana Khan: Man, you're not as smart as you think. I remember, I thought I had all of the answers at 20 and I just, I wish I had told myself to humble myself some more because I think I took a pretty hard fall in my thirties because at 20, I was like confident I was doing so great. And then at 30, I was like, a career, what's that? Like I gotta have kids. I gotta have all that. So just humble yourself and really try to like enjoy your 20s, travel. The rest is going to come with time. Don't look for the grownup stages quite far. I mean, I got pregnant with my first at 29 and he's six or seven now. And you know, I don't remember being in my twenties and anybody telling me what a dynamic change it is when you have a child. And I think when you hear it in your twenties, you're like, I'm going to be a great mom. That's not what I'm talking about. Your entire DNA will change. What you think is important will go out. And like, there will be times where you look at somebody and be like, holy moly, like you have a mother, like I need to be nicer to you because I know what it feels like. Like somebody changed your diaper. So enjoy the twenties because you're really going to get hit with quite a lot in your thirties and humble yourself and learn as much as you can and enjoy life, travel, learn from others, do what you can.

Mary Killelea: I have so many other questions, but I want to get to the fun facts to get to know you. Is there anything though that we haven't talked about that you think our listeners should know? Because our listeners are, you know, women 25 to 48. They are looking to build careers, and some are pivoting, you know, with all the layoffs. They're just trying to figure out what they want to do. You know, layoffs caught them off guard. And now what?

Diana Khan: So, I think the big thing is stop reading about what works and just look at you to find what works. I did not become successful in my own self until I stopped trying to do what was supposed to be done. And I think as women, my husband doesn't have this problem. But I think women, we try very hard to follow the trajectory of what should be done. And it's not going to do anything that make you feel like you're losing. There is no right way to do things. And if you're struggling and you're trying to figure out what to do next, worry about what you want to do next, not what Google says is the right steps, right? And I know that's counterintuitive if you're worried about making ends meet or paying your bills, because it's not realistic to say, I want to be an interior designer if you're having trouble feeding your kids. But you can say things like, you know, I really enjoy interior designing. And what is it about that that I like to do? And how can I break that in smaller segments of what makes me thrive?

And I think, you know, sometimes it's not about the big dreams. It's about breaking down what you enjoy and finding the good in the little so that you can sort of strive to be there even if you're having struggles to figure it out. There's no right answer. There's no right way to do it.

Mary Killelea: Mm. Wonderful advice. Okay, here it goes. Pizza or pasta?

Diana Khan: Neither. Neither.

Mary Killelea: Really?

Diana Khan: I know. Italy just like literally boycotted me. They just said, do not let her in here.

Mary Killelea: Oh, okay. I don't even know. I've never gotten that before. I'm stumped. But okay, we'll move on to favorite season.

Diana Khan: Okay, yeah, I like that one. Let's do that one. Fall, for sure. Basic, basic fall girl over here. I want my pumpkin spice latte that I will never drink because it just tastes like chemicals with my sweater and my boots and a pumpkin patch with my kids and the orange. I'm in 100%. Let's do it.

Mary Killelea: Beach or mountains?

Diana Khan: Mountains, 100%.

Mary Killelea: Chocolate or vanilla?

Diana Khan: Chocolate. Bougie chocolate, dark chocolate, like.

Mary Killelea: It's got to be bougie?

Diana Khan: Yes, it's got to be bougie. My paralegal today, I sent her to the grocery store. I told her to get me bougie chocolate. This is not going to work because I have it, but she got me Ghiradelli dark chocolate. She asked if it's bougie enough and I sort of made a face. And I was like, maybe.

Mary Killelea: Coffee or tea?

Diana Khan: Coffee, 100%. I can't be successful without coffee.

Mary Killelea: I know. I'm usually a two to three cup a day person.

Diana Khan: There you go.

Mary Killelea: Dogs or cats?

Diana Khan: Dogs, 100%. Okay. Cat people are weird. Sorry guys. Sorry.

Mary Killelea: Oh no, no, they're not. They're not. Just kidding.

Diana Khan: Hey, the weird is not bad. To be, to be bolder, right? Right, true. You can be weird.

Mary Killelea: That's, that's a very good point.

Diana Khan: Hey, listen, if I die in a house alone, my dog will die next to me starving. The cat will eat my brains. Look it up. It's a fact.

Mary Killelea: Okay. I'm not looking that up, but thank you. Thank you for being here. This was really cool. It was fun to meet you. And I will put a link to your website and let people know how they can get in touch with you.

Diana Khan: It really is nice. I love it. Thank you for having me.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at to be bolder.com. That's the number two little b bolder.com.