Career Growth Advice from Krista Palmer, Tech Programming Leader | Career Tips for Women in Tech Programming

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 115
Featuring Krista Palmer, Technical Program Manager at GooglePlay

Episode Title: #115 Krista Palmer, Technical Program Manager at GooglePlay Shares Advice for Women in Tech

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Krista Palmer



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Welcome to another episode of the To Be Bolder podcast, where we highlight amazing women in business and tech. I'm your host, Mary Killelea, and today I have the pleasure of speaking with Krista Palmer. She's a technical program manager at Google working on Google Play. With a robust background in front-end development, product management, and scrum mastery, she brings a wealth of experience to the table. As the founder of CX with Krista, she's dedicated to helping professionals transition into technical program management roles. Krista is passionate about the intersection of design and technology and believes in shaping digital experiences that enhances all of our lives. Krista, thank you so much for being here.

Krista Palmer (Guest): Thank you, Mary, for having me. I'm excited and honored to be a guest on your podcast.

Mary Killelea: Well, some people may not know, we met up the other day. We met on LinkedIn and we had just a great conversation the other day and I'm like, okay, I've got to interview you. You've got to share your story. You've got so much to offer women. So, thank you so much for being here. Let's dive in. Talk to me about what initially sparked your interest in technology and how you decided to pursue a degree in computer science.

Krista Palmer: Yes. So, I don't have, I wish I had a romantic story, but it really happened. It started with my mom and dad letting me know, hey, when you get to college, you need to do STEM. They didn't care what it was. It's this you needed to do STEM because that's where jobs were. And so, I didn't realize it until years after college that my whole goal in college was I need to get a job. And so, when I initially got into school, I was a math major because I loved math. And we had computer science courses at my high school, but it was not to the degree of what I would later learn while I was in college. But my second year in school, I met someone who was in the computer science, graduated from the computer science program and had told me, why are you doing math? So, I like math. I thought I was going to be an actuary. And then they said, well, what are you going to do with that? Like, what does that even mean? It's like, I don't know. And then they said, you want a job after school, right? I was like, yeah. They're like, well, you should do computer science. I didn't even think twice about it. I think I like went online, looked at comparing courses. I saw that I was only a semester behind.

At that time, it was very easy to transition into the computer science department. So I just transitioned. I had no idea what I was about to get into. No idea what coding was. Well, I guess a little bit with HTML and CSS, but that's very different than like what they teach you when it comes to software engineering. So, what really struck my interest is I need to make a living. But what kept me there was not, I need to make a living, luckily, but it was really around, I don't know, just needing to make a life for myself. But it was a gift in disguise.

Mary Killelea: I love that transparency because so many people, you know, look at people who get to a certain level in a enterprise company like Google and they wonder how they got there or how they got their start. And so that story I think could resonate with so many people listening out there. Walk us through your experiences that led you to your current role right now.

Krista Palmer: Yeah. So interestingly, with me not having a passion for technology, when I graduated, when I was in the degree program, I did internships that were in software engineering because I was like, okay, that's what I need to learn. But I did not like it. While I enjoyed the way it made me think in terms of breaking down problems till it's small, it's element, thinking about, well, what if it goes this way? What if it goes that way?

After school, I was gung-ho on like, let me figure out what my passion is. Like that was my big, I was like, let me figure out what my passion is, but I still want to make money. So let me figure out what I can do in tech. And so, I started out as a project manager. I didn't like it. Then I went to Scrum Master, still really didn't like it. And I remember being in my role and thinking, well, I don't want to leave tech. So, what else could I do? And I remember in school learning about UX UI design. I thought, well, maybe I can be a designer. That's pretty creative, I think. And so I went back to get my masters in UX UI, focused on UX UI design.

The same way that I appreciated how computer science made me think about problems. I appreciated how HCI made me think about, well, what does it mean to create something meaningful? And I'm a big person who like loves asking questions. So, I feel like at the heart of really good design is asking the right questions. And I appreciated how it made me think about that when it comes to consumer products. What is it that we need to ask? But I knew I didn't want my day to day to be designed. So, I bring that up to say, after grad school COVID hit, and because I guess I was still in, I need to make a living and I need to differentiate my skills. I thought, well, I went to school for computer science. Let me just try being an engineer. I also gained a more confidence in myself over the years in terms of like, oh, I think I can do this. I think in undergrad, I was very much doubting myself, downing myself in terms of I can't be an engineer. And so at that point, I thought, well, let me try it. And so I did what they, what you call front end engineering, which is more of the visuals that we all see when we're interacting with apps. And I thought, well, that's kind of close to design because I have to work with designers. And I enjoyed it.

It was still, it still had its difficult moments, but I actually, I think, I think at times engineering can be a kind of straightforward path in terms of people really don't want to bother you. They just want you to code. They want you to produce things. And so it's not like heavy meeting days. That's not at all companies, but the one that I was at. But Google had approached me. They were hiring a lot and they reached out to me and said, are you interested in technical program management? It was Google. So, I said, of course. I actually interviewed for Google as a software engineer when I was graduating from undergrad and it was horrible. I remember crying in the after the interview because they were asking me questions. I was like, I don't know what this means.

But as a technical program manager, I really didn't know what it was. When I looked at the job description, I thought, oh, I've done some of this stuff. I definitely at that time felt comfortable around the technical piece of what they were expecting you to know. So for me, I think I also took it as a second chance of let me prove that I, I don't want to say belong in tech, but let me prove that I can work hard, that I can land this role. Because I know being at Google, the interview is tough. I want to redeem myself from the interview I had before. And my whole thing was, I don't care what it costs. I was going to pass the interview.

I think when I reflect on my story, there's a lot of curiosity of what else can I do? What else is out there? And I felt that technical program management, because I hadn't done before, but looking at my previous experience, I felt confident enough that I think I could do this. And so I think that that curiosity blended with, I don't know, the determination of like, I don't know, like I said, redeem myself in terms of getting into a company that's pretty hard to get into. I think that led me to where I am at right now.

Mary Killelea: I love listening to you talk because you're a woman with a lot of self-awareness. And I think that probably has led you to the success that you've had. What advice do you have for other women out there to be more self-aware and to listen to those internal voices that guide you in one direction or another when it comes to a career path?

Krista Palmer: Thank you for that. Thank you for saying that. It's definitely been an uphill battle at times with, I guess, over analysis, because I'm definitely the one to say like, why are you doing this? Why are you doing that? But for my advice, I think I'm very big on reflecting. And if I feel that something is off, if I feel like I'm not really in this role, understanding why, I also think I'm not very much a risk taker. And I would say that with self-awareness and for those who want to leverage self-awareness, I think with opportunities that are in front of you or whatever your current situation is, I think this goes back to the computer science part of me of breaking it down to, if you can, to its core. For me, it was kind of like, why don't I like this role, but what can I do? And also, I think a lot of, I'm just thinking about this right now, a lot of my career is a give and take of, I've never really loved a role, but what do I know that I can tolerate? Because when I first started, I couldn't tolerate any of it. And I thought, well, I don't want to go to that extreme. So I think my advice is, don't be afraid to have trade-offs with yourself, ground. Making a move doesn't mean that the next role has to be perfect, but is there a way where the next role could maybe help you learn things?

So one of the reasons why I wanted to do front-end development is I thought, okay, I can apply what I've learned. I can also learn about engineering and more or less just have a better understanding around what front-end engineers do. So, it was kind of like a trade-off of, well, don't really want to be an engineer, but I think in the long run, it'll just make me stronger. Maybe people have any more confidence in me of like, oh, she's done a lot of things. She can learn quickly. So, I think for self-awareness, my advice would be take time to look internally. Not all the answers are going to come at once.

Also, when you're looking internally around what is it that you like, what is it that you want to do? If it's a big move where you're totally pivoting to something else or a different role, breaking it down in sizable chunks. One thing I've had to learn is having kindness with myself around not punishing myself for being in something I don't like, being in a role I'm not really happy about, or even for the longest, not chasing after. I don't want to use we're chasing after, but not going after maybe what would be better aligned with what I think to do.

Mary Killelea: There are so many good golden nuggets in that. I love that. So let's talk about your role as a technical program manager at Google Play. What does a typical day look like for you?

Krista Palmer: A typical day, working with a lot of different people. And because you work with a lot of different people, other program managers on other teams, product managers, UX, UI designers, UX researchers, analytics people who look at data. Because Google Play is a consumer product, marketing, go to market, legal, finance. And as a program manager, there are different projects that are in flight within your program, and they go across different teams. And so that means there are a lot of meetings. I think that one of the things that I sacrifice a lot on my calendar is that it's covered with meetings. I would like to say I don't need to be in all of those meetings, which is true, but a bulk of them, it's good to just know to have some awareness, but I also think that's FOMO.

So a typical day for me is in the morning doing more of the hands-on keyboard work that could be going through emails, covering the action items that were brought up the previous day or a couple days before, because I'm definitely not a 24-hour turnaround unless it's necessary. I think it's obviously a lot of reaching out in terms of understanding where a project is. There's always blockers. People are very opinionated. So, there's always looking at a document, seeing that people have opinions, and then reaching out to the appropriate people to say, do we need to get people in a room? Or can this be resolved offline? But also, it's a lot of meetings and a lot of work, a lot of working with different people.

I think also because different projects are at different flights or different cycles within their lives, different stages within the delivery lifecycle, some days more projects get my attention than others. So, I think it's also a daily balancing act of like, am I doing enough? Does this project need to do this right now? And prioritizing, a lot of reprioritizing as things come on, things come from other people around things I need to do. So, I think it's definitely a lot of juggling, a lot of speaking with people, and a lot of figuring out how do I move things forward and realizing sometimes that's in small steps. Sometimes in small steps can be multiple meetings, multiple touch points with people.

It could also be readouts. So UXR is a big thing within Google Play of people doing research on what they found in a target market, how people are reacting to certain features. So, we'll have readouts around this is what we're seeing within the market and where we think a feature should go. This is what, or if something has launched, maybe it's a readout from the product managers around, based on the data, this is what we've seen. So, it's also a lot of intake, a lot of intake on information from my team, from other teams. It's a constant learning environment.

Mary Killelea: From a personality role, would you say that your job lends itself well to an introvert and extrovert, or does it lend itself better to one or the other?

Krista Palmer: That's a great question. I think both. I think the beauty about technical program management is you find your flavor, meaning some program managers I know are very extroverted. And I mean that like, maybe the word isn't extroverted, but very much they have a lot of courage in their voice. So, they'll be in meetings and, you know, stating their opinions, getting involved in, you know, other projects. But I also think as someone like me who's more of an introvert, I think it lends itself well, because at the end of the day, as long as you can speak up, I was actually thinking about this today. I feel like as a technical program manager, you can't hide. So regardless if you're extrovert, introverted, you cannot hide, meaning it's part of your role to see something and take action. So regardless of the introvert, extrovert, if you can take an action and you're not afraid to do that, or even if you are afraid, you do it in a way where maybe you take baby steps to take the action. That's the most important thing.

I think also with being remote, a lot of the teams I work with are in California. There are people I work with in New York, some people in Japan, all over the world, actually. So, it's not necessarily a, I'm in person talking with all these folks. And I think engineers are introverted people. And so, working with them, a lot of them very much won't talk if they don't need to, but they're very vibrant one-on-one. So, I think that lends itself well since program management is about relationships. I feel like all roles are like that, but the better relationships you have with people, the more people will give you nuggets around what they're hearing or be more honest around what's working and what's not working. So, I think any personality would work. I think the main thing is not being afraid to speak up. And that doesn't mean speak up in terms of pushback. If you see something that's wrong, take an action. If you see something needs to be done.

And then also I have found that in my role, because you work with so many different people, a lot of people appreciate when you ask them, how are you feeling about the program? Are you getting the information you need? Do you feel that you're being left out? So, I think if you're a person who likes the one-on-one connections to be your strength or be a strength in terms of how you succeed in your role, it works for you.

And I'll say this one last thing. I read a quote that said, as a program manager, technical, non-technical, when I'm doing my job, everybody else shines, which is true. Like you remove things, bring people together in order for them to do their job better. And that's something I enjoy. And I think that's something that regardless of personality type can be a motivator of like, Oh, I enjoy doing this.

Mary Killelea: Help me understand how you define the intersection of design and technology.

Krista Palmer: For me, the intersection of design and technology happen when tech becomes meaningful. And there's different parts of that. So, there's meaningful in terms of it lets you get a job, get a task done. I think there's also meaningful in terms of understanding what the end user wants. And that could be features. That could be little nuances in terms of like notifications or how something reacts on the app. But I really think the intersection is when apps become meaningful. And when apps or could be apps could be any type of tech, you could be in your car. When you feel like it's, I don't want to say it knows you, but it understands like what your pain points are. And it tries to do it the best way that it can.

I also think meaningful can be you go to Amazon, there's millions of products on Amazon. But in my opinion, for the most part, when you go on Amazon, you don't get overwhelmed if like, there's a hundred thousand products that are on this platform and I'm getting bombarded with them all at once. I think in a way, meaningful can also mean when you just don't feel overwhelmed when you're interacting with something. And I think that in order to do that well, that's where design kicks in, where you understand what the user wants. I like to say that I think in this day and age…so anyone could really start a company and be at the top level of tech. You could hire the best engineers, you could have the fastest, it could not have a bunch of bugs, it could be I don't know, all the things that I guess tech quantitative things matter.

But I think the best applications are the ones that have really good design and that no app can succeed without designers, researchers, product managers. And so I think for things to continue to be meaningful, I'm sorry, for technology, any tech company to be competitive, I feel like design has to be at the forefront because I think at the heart of design, it's about understanding humans and humanity and what humans want. And also understanding tech can't solve all problems, but it can help with maybe the scope or the niche that you're interested in.

Mary Killelea: I love that perspective. You've worked at several different companies throughout your career and the cultures have been obviously very different at them. How have the cultures at these companies influenced your personal growth and what have you learned from those experiences?

Krista Palmer: That's a really good question. I think early on in my career, the companies that I worked at, I felt weren't very supportive, meaning I think I've been fortunate. There's always one or two people that I can talk to in terms of, I just want to vent, or they are interested in wanting to know how I'm doing and what my career goals are. But I have found that at the beginning of my career, I worked at companies where engineers reigned. And so, I bring that up to say, sometimes engineers can be very rude, not very empathetic, especially maybe if they have to repeat themselves. Maybe if they're, as a project manager, you're asking them, can you give me an estimate on this? And then they just start freaking out of why are you asking? I don't know. It could change. And they could say it to you in the tone that can be defeating.

And so, I felt that in the beginning of my career, I think I felt like I was drowning. I didn't know what I wanted to do in tech. I didn't feel like I was working with teams where the engineers, even outside the engineers, I feel like sometimes I worked in companies where there was no, what is it? I don't want to say the word discipline, but no conversation around like, hey, let's have some humanity when we're talking to people. And I feel like it's very easy for people within the culture to just lean towards that. And everybody in their own way has that type of attitude.

I think also, as I was looking at different companies, it probably wasn't until after grad school, when I worked in financial services, that it was my first time really working with a company that I felt like within the tech department, everyone was kind. And I think it was the first time and maybe it was a change in my mindset too, of like, taking a chance on myself of becoming a front end engineer, and then maybe walking into it with more of an open mind and open heart of like, what am I going to learn? And so I felt like at that time, the people there were supportive, understanding if I had questions around, you know, issues I was having in the code base.

And being here at Google, I know Google is known for, at least what I had known before coming in, of having fine people. It's a monolith. It's a huge company. So you have many different personalities that you work with. But I feel like it's been one of the first companies where there's support all around. It doesn't make me mean that there aren't days that aren't easy or days that you don't feel draining or days that you don't feel defeated. But I will say that it's the first time that I feel that I've worked in a culture where almost everyone really tries to make sure if there's disagreements, if it's an intense moment that they don't forget, we're talking to human beings at the end.

Mary Killelea: That's wonderful. And it makes me think, listening to you, of non-negotiables, as we all kind of navigate our careers. I know I have my mental checklist of non-negotiables. What are some of your non-negotiables as you have looked at companies?

Krista Palmer: Great question. I think number one, kindness. I am definitely a person that realize words hurt. And making somebody feel less than is never ideal and never worth it. I don't care what's going on. So, kindness for me has always been a non-negotiable. I think with kindness, I also think reality checks. So, tech can move really, really fast. And I think everybody wants to be competitive. Everybody wants to have the best feature. They want engagement. They want their users to get value, all these things. But I think sometimes what's put over that is that sometimes teams can't work as fast as lightning. Sometimes there must be an understanding that at the end of the day, we may not be able to make the original deadline. At the end of the day, a feature that we build may not have the output that we wanted in terms of how customers are engaging. At the end of the day, priority shifts that go above whatever the entire cross-functional team is working on. And I think for me having leaders, a manager, also other people on the team that can understand that. Understand that sometimes you have to work to the last hour and sometimes you don't. And sometimes things are going to come on time. Sometimes they're not. It's software. If you know anything about software, things pop up all the time.

And so for me, I think having realists, I think it goes back to the humanity piece. Understanding you're just working with humans. People are doing the best they can. Some people are happy in their role. Some people aren't. And I just think going in with that mindset for me, I think those are the two most non-negotiables. Kindness and just having some understanding that things happen. But things still move on. Throughout my career, I've realized I've had projects that have been gravely behind, gave an original date. It was like two months behind. People were freaking out. But at the end of the day, it all worked out.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. Kindness, definitely on my list. Through CX with Kris, you're helping professionals transition into technical program management roles. Tell us about how you support women and how they can work with you.

Krista Palmer: Yeah. So, I think at the heart of it, since I've been in school, it's always been very clear that there aren't a lot of women within tech. I was in a program where I was in a program where there weren’t a lot of women in tech. I think that with that comes questioning of confidence around can I do this? I think it also can come with not understanding everything somebody has done, understanding all the skills that you may have. And as I've been in the technical program management role, I've gotten a lot of questions around how have I gotten into the role? I have a technical background, but I think people think I'm just this very expert technical person. It's like, no, that's not the case. And so for me, when it comes to, especially when I'm working with women, is giving them the confidence that the role is obtainable regardless of your background.

I think I've learned that it's just a willingness of how much do you want to learn, which doesn't mean going back to school. And then also I think it has meant as I've worked with different people, taking a step back around what their skillsets are, what their experiences are. And I find that kind of going back to design, it's about asking the right question. Because if you said, have you ever managed a cross-functional team? Some people may say, yeah, I've done that. But they may not understand in doing that, that that stakeholder management, that risk management, there's a whole, that's comms communications, that's being proactive around like what's to come. And so I find that with the women I work with, it's about gaining confidence that if they really want the role, it's attainable.

And also letting them see, there's a lot that they have done within their experience, which translates to the role. And even if they haven't done it, for me, I think the biggest moments of, oh, I think I can do this, is when someone outlines a plan of like, well, maybe if you did X and you did Y, that could actually give you the experience that you want, and then you'd be prepared. So it's also bubbling, bringing to light, okay, if there is a gap in skills, what can we do that's manageable to help you bridge that gap?

Mary Killelea: I love that you're working with women in that way. And the confidence thing is so key. And having that support person is so critical. Today's economy, in trying to navigate the career landscape, having a strong personal brand really matters. How do you approach building your own personal brand? And have you been intentional in doing so over the years?

Krista Palmer: Great question. I think I always thought about personal brand of inside of work, meaning inside of the office, how do people view me? Am I approachable? Do they have confidence that I can complete a task? I never thought about it outside of work. And even when I say inside of work, it could also be if I'm at a networking event, like how I'm presenting myself, am I following up? How do people feel when they're around me? Am I listening? Am I giving people the space to be themselves? But I never thought about it until probably within the last two years, when I realized, oh, like the LinkedIn and I'm not really on Instagram, but their LinkedIn, the Instagram's my website. It's like my storefront in terms of if they don't know me, here is their initial take on who I am.

So, for me, I think the way I approach personal branding today, especially where I'm at in my career, where I realize, I think I'm more interested in going wide than going deep. I think number one, I want people to know I'm approachable. Number two, that I have knowledge in a lot of different areas. So, with what I post, or even internally, like what I raise my hand to work on. But I'm also still learning what that is. I was ashamed at first to say like, hey, at this point in my career, I'm just now diving into personal branding. But I've definitely gotten to the point where I realized, hey, having a personal brand outside of work, I think it's kind of a non-negotiable. Even if somebody looks at my resume, they Google me. I want something to pop up.

So they have someone, it's like a warm, what do they call it? A warm touch. At first I'm cold if they see my resume or they just Google my name. But hopefully my personal brand allows them to feel a warmer touch where it's like, oh, she's, like I said, I think for me it's approachable, kind, knowledgeable, has a wealth of experience. I think for me, my personal brand is wanting to go deeper in those areas.

Mary Killelea: When it comes to your own career, how do you approach goal setting and career planning? Are there specific tools or methods that help you stay on track?

Krista Palmer: That's a great question. So, I think for me, there aren't any specific tools that I use. I constantly think about like, what do I want to do next? What interests me? I think now also, as I'm working with folks and I'm going over their resume and I'm asking them, hey, do you have any metrics to tie to this? Do you remember this experience? I think now what I find more is I'm looking at my own experience and thinking about, well, if I want to, I don't want to say, be more senior or if I want to spread my wings more, like what else could I be doing? But I don't use any new tools. I don't have a spreadsheet around these are my goals. I think for me also, I know that long-term, I don't want to stay in corporate.

Right now, I like to think of my career as chapters and I think about, well, my next chapter, I'd like to really know about marketing. I'd like to really know about sales. And so, for me, it's like, I don't have a role in mind of what I want to do, but I do have an idea of these are the things I want to know. So, I pay very close attention to the go-to-market teams, the product specialists, the legal, finance on when I'm in meetings, because for me, it's like, I want to have a better understanding of what they do. I'm curious about the topics because I think the next thing that I do will probably be very different from what I'm doing now, which I'm excited about because I've also realized there's no one way to have a career. And as I mentioned, I've never been deep in any role, meaning I've had it for more than five years. And so I like the idea of I go wide and maybe with my skillset, there's a lot of different roles that I can do.

Mary Killelea: Mentorship is key component to career growth. Have you had mentors?

Krista Palmer: I have had mentors. Yes. Yes. And for me, mentors in my life have been sounding boards. They've also been reality checks. Sometimes, especially earlier within my career, I can let emotions fog clarity in terms of as I was with one company where I just, the people that I was working with, they felt horrible. And I don't know if this is good or bad, but I remember having a mentor at one point that had mentioned to me, well, you know, this is not going to be your forever role. So, what can you learn from it? Like given everything that you've learned, everything that you've done, what is it that you can learn from it that could be applied to what you want to do later? And so I've appreciated my mentors over the years that have helped me see that also have helped just to give me confidence.

Like when I wanted to start the CX with Kris, they're like, oh, that's great. I remember talking to one and I said, for the longest, I was ignoring helping people in technical program management because I felt like I wasn't, I'm not the LeBron James of technical managers. I'm not the greatest of all time. I'm good. And I thought, well, since I'm not that great, there's no way I can help people. But then it was brought up to me, like sometimes there are coaches like in athlete and the athletic world that weren't the best players, but they know the game, they know the skillset, and they teach the people who are on their teams, how to be great, better players. And so for that, I think it helped build my confidence in terms of, well, I know the role, I know the skills. I can, I've actually enjoyed talking to people about technical program management.

And so that was kind of like a shift in how you're viewing it. Well, it's not necessarily about me and my experience. It's more like, what do I know? And what can I help others understand that may be second nature at this point for me? I know it's cliche, but I can do anything. And I'm not saying that every day I, but I say that and I believe it. But when people tell you that in your ear, in moments where, you know, I have a lack of, can I do this? I remember that and say, no, no, I actually can't.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. I myself had a conversation with a woman today and I don't think she knew the impact of some of her words that she said on me, but it was just what I needed to hear at the right time. So how do you encourage people to find mentors or how did you approach that? Or was it just a natural evolution within a relationship?

Krista Palmer: No. So I think with every, most companies I've been with, there's always been a mentorship program. When I was in school, there was a huge push of, you know, you should have mentors. If anything, I wish I had more mentors. I took the task early on to have more mentors. So, I think it was more of a natural thing of, I knew in the back of my head, this was something that many people recommended having mentorship. And as I've been in different companies, the women that I've had who are mentors in the beginning, the men and women that I've had who are mentors in the beginning, we just always kept up our relationship. So, I think at this point now, my advice to anybody would be if you can find a mentor, find one. And it doesn't necessarily need to be someone that's in your area. It could be somebody who's in a role that you want to be or somebody's career that you admire. But I think it's just very important to have a support system that's outside of friends and maybe your own mind. Of course, I think each of us supports ourselves, but it's good to have other people who can take sometimes an objective view around where you're at within your career, where you're at within your life. And also, I find that as mentors have been with me throughout the years, they've seen my growth and can remind me of that. I don't see on a daily basis.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's such a true fact. Okay, so this podcast is all about encouraging women to be bolder. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Krista Palmer: Great question. I was thinking about this, something separate for myself this morning. I think to be bolder means trusting yourself more and trusting that regardless of if there's fear involved or not, you can still move forward. But I think what I've learned, especially at this point in my life, trusting myself is what is allowing me to be bold. And trusting myself could be in little ways. It could be in sometimes big ways. Big ways could be I reach out to somebody. But I think being bolder is about trusting yourself and your ability. And then with each step that you take, using that as a learning piece, or throwing it away of like, well, I did that, but still continuing to always trust in yourself.

And as they say, bet on yourself, believe in your ability, believe in your vision, believe in you know, what is it that you desire, and knowing you are capable of doing it. I think boldness comes out of them.

Mary Killelea: That's beautiful. I don't want to stop there, because I want everyone to get to know you just a tad bit better. So I'm going to throw some fun questions at you and see where we go from here. Okay?

Krista Palmer: Okay. What's your favorite dogs or cats?

My mom growing up had a toy poodle and a cockapoo. And his name was Mocha. And her name was Latte. So, I think I have a soft spot for toy poodles. It reminds me of Mocha, who is very sweet.

Mary Killelea: Okay, I love that. So what's your favorite coffee or tea?

Krista Palmer: Ooh, uh, Chai. I'm not a coffee person. And I realized Chai means tea, but Chai, or London fog.

Mary Killelea: Okay. Summer or winter?

Krista Palmer: As I've gotten older, I think, oh, I think summer because the days are longer. But I'm now warming up to winter. I also live in the south. So, winters aren't like extreme like they are in the north. So, the winters are like a dash of warm days, more than a dash of warm days, more of a dash of cold days, more warm days.

Mary Killelea: Beach or the mountains?

Krista Palmer: Mm. Mountains with an ocean view.

Mary Killelea: Oh, okay. Yeah, I'm down with that.

Krista Palmer: But I think, yeah, water is so powerful. Yeah, that's a hard one. But I'm going to say the mountains. I love mountains.

Mary Killelea: Fantastic. It has been so fun to get to know you. I've loved this conversation. I loved all your nuggets of information and tidbits of insights and advice that are really, if people listen to them and take the steps are so actionable and meaningful. I will include the link to your website in the show notes. Anything else you want to say to the young women out there looking to get into tech and advice or insights, parting words?

Krista Palmer: Yeah. First, I want to say thank you, Mary, for having me on. Since I've been since I've met you, you've been an advocate and supporter of what I'm doing. I think for the women who are looking to get into tech, do not be discouraged by the word “tech”. There are so many roles within this industry where you can choose how deep in the weeds in terms of technical knowledge you want to go. And I think the beautiful thing about it is most of all of it can be learned online.

But I would say, trust yourself, explore. I was reading something that talked about the string of curiosity. Just follow the string of what piques your interests. And even if you don't know, that's okay. I will say that if you don't know what you want to do, if you don't know what is calling to you, that is okay. Trust that it will come in time. But also know that if you really want to be in tech, there's opportunities for you. It's just a matter of knowing where to look, which I think over time we all find. And when I say nowhere to look, like where that special piece is of like, ah, this is where I want to be. But believe in yourself, trust yourself. And yeah.

Mary Killelea: Thank you. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

Krista Palmer: Thank you so much, Mary. Thank you. Thank you.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two, little b, boulder.com.