Career Growth Advice from Cassandra Chin, International Tech Educator | Career Tips for Women in Technology

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 138
Featuring Cassandra Chin

Episode Title: #138 Cassandra Chin's Journey From Child Coder to International Tech Educator

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Cassandra Chin


Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there, my name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the 2B Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. 2B Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and a source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Have you ever met someone who started teaching tech workshops internationally at the age of 13 years old? Well, today's guest didn't just break into the tech world early, she's been helping others do the same ever since. It's unbelievable. On this episode of the 2B Boulder podcast, I'm thrilled to sit down with Cassandra Chin, author of Raising Your Young Coders, keynote speaker, DEI advocate, computer science student, and allround tech trailblazer. From speaking on global stages like Dev Nexus and Deox Morocco to inspiring parents to spark a love of coding in their kids, Cassandra is on a mission to make tech more inclusive and accessible for everyone. Cassandra, it is great to have you here. I'm so excited because I'm like you're the youngest guest I've ever had and I think it's really fantastic to feature a young bold female like yourself.

Cassandra Chin (Guest): That's really cool to know and I'm really happy to be here today.

Mary Killelea: All right. Well, let's start with you telling us you started teaching tech workshops at 13. Most kids are not thinking about teaching tech workshops. What triggered that passion for technology?

Cassandra Chin: I think at that age, well, I'd really like to thank my dad. He's in the technology field and he's had a really strong influence on me. Before I was teaching the kids workshops myself. The first thing I did was attend kids workshops. So, I had the opportunity to attend some local Bay Area kids workshops and I even went there with one of my childhood friends. So, it was kind of just a weekend fun activity. We got to make arts and crafts and there was some tech involved

Mary Killelea: And then you just said, "Hey, I can do this. Let me see that.

Cassandra Chin: It wasn't quite that leap." Like, I was with the Devox for Kids Bay Area organization. I went to a few of those workshops, but then my dad decided to join the organizers team and he started teaching kids workshops himself. So he taught this Raspberry Pi kids workshop. He would give the kids Raspberry Pies and a touchscreen and then he would ask the kids to basically go into the Nano programming IDE and to type a few lines of code. So the very first game was called Mary had a little lambdas and it was just a pixel art sprite game. Use the arrow keys to move your character and you have a line of sheep following you. But you can do different things like if you step on a square they turn into chickens or you can change the color of the animals in the source code. So it was really a workshop for experimentation. So, I actually watched him teach that workshop at a few international conferences. I remember he took me to I think Beijing or Shanghai. He taught it to students there. And after watching him teach it a few times, he just pretty much asked me if I wanted to teach it next time. And I didn't feel like saying no because it didn't look that hard. I felt like I could do it. So, he arranged for me to teach a local kids workshop in the Bay Area, and that's what I prepared to do.

Mary Killelea: I think that's amazing. It sounds like you have a really cool dad. Do you mind me asking how old you are?

Cassandra Chin: Right now I'm 22.

Mary Killelea: Okay, fantastic. What a fun story. So, you've been doing this a while.

Cassandra Chin: Yeah, very long time.

Mary Killelea: What do you love most about technology?

Cassandra Chin: Growing up, there's already technology in the house. I mean, I love video games and actually we had 3D printers and tech gadgets in the house and that's all technology related. So, that was my first introduction to tech.

Mary Killelea: So, do you love math and science? Is that like something you gravitate to?

Cassandra Chin: Definitely not.

Mary Killelea: Definitely not. Really?

Cassandra Chin: No. Actually, one of my biggest points in my book is that math is not related to technology.

Mary Killelea: Oh, good. You're educating me.

Cassandra Chin: Growing up or going to math classes in high school, I feel like it's more about memorizing the formula than applying it. But I also knew how to program, which I feel like programming is more about logic and creativity. Like the fundamentals of what an if statement does or what a for loop does is completely different than a math equation.

Mary Killelea: Tell me about your book. So this is my new book I wrote about raising young coders and I published it with a press. The book is for parents to read to inspire their kids into getting into technology. And I think what's special about my book is that I really focus on inspiring kids to enjoy technology. I don't try to force kids to learn programming concepts. I'm not expecting kids to just understand programming principles after this. It's mainly a project focused book. I divide the chapters into different age range projects cuz I want to make sure that kids are tackling projects which are not too easy and not too hard. I think finding that balance is important. So I have a variety of projects. So I want kids to come out of this inspired. I want them to have fun because if they enjoy doing technology, then they'll want to do more of it in the future. Yeah, this is just the beginning, the start for kids. I kind of treat it like the way I teach kids workshops because in my kids workshops, they're about 2 to three hours and most of the kids have never learned how to program before. So, I'm not teaching them programming fundamentals. I just want them to come out of it thinking that it was fun and maybe they'll tell their parents that it's fun and they might want to take more technology classes in their schools later.

Mary Killelea: Where do you teach your workshops?

Cassandra Chin: Initially I was teaching more workshops in the Bay Area for DevOps for kids but it quickly expanded to international conferences. So I taught it at JF focus in Sweden, Devox Morocco and JCreate a lot of international conferences.

Mary Killelea: That's amazing. What are some of the things that have surprised you the most about the feedback you get from kids that you teach in your workshops?

Cassandra Chin: If I'm being completely honest, I only see the kids for 2 to 3 hours. So usually I don't get much later feedback. But usually right after the workshop they have a good expression because I always make sure to give them problems which are possible. So they just solved a really big problem by themselves.

Mary Killelea: What surprises you the most feedbackwise from parents? Usually the parents don't stay for the entire workshop. They come and pick up their kids towards the end. Sometimes they come in a little early and they just sit next to their kid and they don't know what to do. Their kid knows how to do it better than them.

Mary Killelea: Oh, yeah. I bet.

Cassandra Chin: So, I think they're surprised by their kid's accomplishments. And sometimes their kids get really excited and want to try doing it at home or just talk about it. So, I think there's some good parenting happiness.

Mary Killelea: The book also features interviews with women in tech. How did their stories influence your own journey?

Cassandra Chin: These are people who I've personally met in my life and I think who I've had a positive impact on. I have been going to conferences the past few years, but some of these women I met even before them. And I think at a developer conference, there are a lot of guys. But I feel like I was able to have the opportunity to speak to some of these women on a personal level and just them being there in that environment is already inspiring itself.

Mary Killelea: Do you feel like a role model?

Cassandra Chin: I feel like I should be one cuz I've taught a lot of kids workshops. So I hope I'm a role model to the kids. Yeah.

Mary Killelea: I would imagine you're very inspiring to young little girls who don't have a lot of women, female, young developing developers who are, you know, teaching workshops at your age and are doing it so confidently. What advice would you give parents who're not tech savvy but want to introduce coding to their children in a meaningful way?

Cassandra Chin: With the resources out there, it can feel very intimidating. But I wrote this book about raising young coders while I was aware of that. So I intentionally picked a language which wouldn't push away non-technical people. Like if you've ever heard of tech dragons, it's like a whole series of terminology and words which are really hard to understand if you didn't study technology. So, I stayed away from all that and just wrote the book in plain English.

Mary Killelea: Why don't you cover some of the other chapters in your book just so that people can have an idea of what you teach.

Cassandra Chin: Yeah. So, the first chapter is just a beginning chapter. It's basically about how to make technology fun for your kids and also talks about the gender biases in technology. I don't think that technology should be a boy or girl thing. anyone should have the equal opportunity to try it. So if you bought this book for your son, then it should encourage you to also try things with your daughter. And the second to fourth chapters are all project chapters. The second chapter is for younger kids and it features the project squishy circuits and paper circuits. The squishy circuit is a Play-Doh project with conductive LEDs. So you can make any Play-Doh creation and just light it up with LEDs. So it's a really good arts and crafts project for kids who like art. And it doesn't even feel like it's related to technology somehow.

Mary Killelea: You're right. No, it really does make an engaging art project, but yet there is innovation technology underneath it and weaved into it. That's very cool. I want to talk about mindset and just confidence. Where do you think that comes from for you?

Cassandra Chin: I guess this really goes back to the first workshop I taught. Obviously, that was a big turning point in my life. I wasn't very confident about public speaking at all. And I actually feel like there's a big difference between like standing up on stage in your classroom and standing up on stage to an audience outside because in the classroom with your peers watching you usually in that setting the only thing they're thinking about is when am I next because they also have to present. So their attention isn't really focused on you and you know you have the teacher grading you. So I actually still don't enjoy classroom presentations. But I find public speaking to be very different because it is interesting. Whatever I said on stage, the kids would turn their full attention to me and listen to every word. So, I was very nervous at first, but I just realized that I was actually doing a good thing. They were actually listening to me and I was teaching them.

Mary Killelea: What's next for you? Another book, more speaking, new coding adventures. What are you working on right now?

Cassandra Chin: In the short term, I'm working on finishing my computer science degree. I'm actually taking my capstone class now, so I'm pretty close to that. Wow. I'm probably going to go to more conferences.

Mary Killelea: What do you love most about your life right now?

Cassandra Chin: I think I love the flexibility I have from going to an online college because in the past three or four years I have friends who flew out of state to go to immersion colleges and most of them haven't been able to go to conferences and do these extra activities. So I think meeting all these people has changed my life a lot.

Mary Killelea: When you go to these conferences, they're mostly guys there because we know that that's just the typical makeup of most people in tech. How do you feel assertive and express your voice within the rooms?

Cassandra Chin: Well, if I meet someone, I start by introducing myself and then I just tell them my biggest accomplishment and then after that, we're equals.

Mary Killelea: I love that. Well, what do you want to tell from a message standpoint to women who are listening either young or older, who have children or who are younger and are somewhat intimidated by technology? What should they be thinking about and what words of advice do you have for them?

Cassandra Chin: I think it's important to give your kids an opportunity to try technology without biases. Just let them experience technology and let them decide if they like it or not. And also, technology is a pretty profitable career, so it's not a bad path.

Mary Killelea: I think that's fantastic advice. Is there anything else you wanted to cover before I set you free to go to many more of your I'm sure popular conversations that people are wanting to see you and have you talk on their podcasts.

Cassandra Chin: Yeah. So for people interested in this book raising young coders, I'll post a discount code for 20% off which you can use.

Mary Killelea: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for being on the show. It's been really great to meet you. I wish you all all the success in the world.

Cassandra Chin: Yeah, thank you for having me here.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number 2 little bbolder.com.