Career Growth Advice from Shelley Wagner, Tech Leader | Career Tips for Women in Tech

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 29
Featuring Shelley Wagner, Chief of Staff at Intel

Episode Title: #29 Career Podcast Featuring Shelley Wagner, a Woman in Tech who Shares her Secrets to a Long Lasting & Fulfilling Career

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Shelley Wagner



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Today's guest is Shelley Wagner. Shelly is the Chief of Staff and Technical Assistant for Client Security Strategy and Initiatives, Operations and Product Incident Response Communications Lead for Intel. She has 20 plus years of experience in implementing operational vision, strategies, and multiple functions. She is an accredited professional certified coach, certified in project and change management. Shelley, you have such an impressive resume and have had such a rich career. I can't wait to dive in. Thank you so much for being on the show. It's great to have you here.

Shelley Wagner (Guest): Well, thank you, Mary. I appreciate the invite.

Mary Killelea: Let's talk about your current role. Share with us what you do at a high level, provide us some insights into your role and responsibilities. Okay. Well, I think I'm lucky that I have three or four roles here. So a Chief of Staff, a Technical Assistant. The Technical Assistant is somewhat like Intel. It may not be used outside. Chief of Staff, you run basically all the meetings. You make sure the work is planned out. Any kind of internal or external presentations for your boss you own. And then it really depends on the focus of the manager. So for example, with COVID, there aren't a lot of keynotes. So, to get our story out for security, I am managing a podcast series called Cybersecurity Inside. And we kicked it off last September. So that's been really fun because I had not done any marketing before that. And then the Product Response Team. So basically this is across industries. It really is when you identify, evaluate and coordinate responses to a security, what we call vulnerability. And if you were going to think about this, think about like if you remodeled your kitchen and you're single and five years later you have a couple kids and you find out that with them going in and out or something, it gets really cold. So, you didn't plan for it, but it's a vulnerability. So, I'm a comms lead, which means it's both internal and external facing and we work with our customers to make sure that they understand what the vulnerability is, what the updates are and coordinate all that communication with them.

Mary Killelea: Wow. You've got to be quite busy.

Shelley Wagner: I might be a little busier than I'd like. It ebbs and flows. What you hope is that the PRT when it's really busy, that the other stuff is not. So right now we're all busy. All of them are busy.

Mary Killelea: And I think there's going to be a level of trust there with you and who you're working with to a degree higher than most jobs because you literally are making, I don't want to say making them look good, but you are making them look good by pulling everything together and understanding it in a way that they want it conveyed.

Shelley Wagner: Yes. And I think the great thing is I work with a great team. It's a new team. I mean, I formed a year ago and it is a really, it's a small team, but it's a great team and that helps my job. But there is a high degree of interaction. I mean, when you're a TA chief of staff, you're working with your boss very closely.

Mary Killelea: What are some of the perks, if you will, of being a TA? So I assume travel would be a perk in normal circumstances.

Shelley Wagner: So the TA position, it tends to, you get a lot of information that you normally wouldn't get. For example, we get pass downs from the corporation because our boss may need it. You mostly, I don't have to say, hey, my boss wants this. It pretty much says I'm a TA and it opens doors just because everybody knows what that is. And of course, the part that I like is with the chief staff, you get to own a lot of stuff and I don't mind that. I'm very organized and so running staff and such, I kind of like that.

Mary Killelea: Now are TA roles like a two year role or do they have a cast?

Shelley Wagner: Yes, it's usually, well, so it really depends, but what there's kind of this unwritten rule that is between, it's about 18 months. Now, again, COVID is a little bit different because normally you'd be traveling a lot and there's a lot of keynotes. Usually, it's vice presidents and above like corporate vice president and our fellow that is like a technical vice president. Those are the people who get TAs.

Mary Killelea: Got it. Okay. Well, let's talk about some of the other roles that you've had within your career because I know you've been at Intel for a while. So how many years have you been in Intel?

Shelley Wagner: I hit 30 this June.

Mary Killelea: Oh my goodness. Okay. So I can't wait to hear the different roles that you had in your, in your career, your rich career.

Shelley Wagner: Okay. So I have been one of those people. So some, you know, we have a lot of engineers that have this deep technical. I'm not that person. I'm the person who is more functional across. I have been fortunate to be in, have been in every function, every function, and I'm going to count marketing in what I'm doing today. Cause that was the one thing I would say I've never done marketing. And I used to say, I never will, but never say never. So even engineering, I've been in TMG with engineering. And I also, this is really going to age me. I spent three years at Nike and that was the transition management. They have formal transition management process. And so I've been really lucky to have a lot of different roles. Probably in the last five years, a lot of obstructors, chief of staff. And then I have a tendency to fall into roles where I'm driving efficiencies. And part of it is I kind of call it my superpower. It's just how I think like how many keystrokes is that going to take us? And so I have done quite a bit of work on what we call our product development life cycle. How do you produce a product, which is what are your decision making? What's your governance? So it's like a process. I'm focused on the process for hoping to make the engineers more productive and make our decisions timely.

Mary Killelea: Now you mentioned that you've fallen into roles, but I feel like you're not giving yourself the benefit of the doubt there. Have you navigated your career over the years in a strategic way, thinking when you took on one new role, how that was going to get you to the next, or was it jobs open because of the successes that you had in current roles? What's been your approach in that?

Shelley Wagner: I kind of approach jobs in a way where I use this in coaching. I usually have three priorities that I can articulate. This is kind of my priorities of what I want out of a job. By the way, it changes as you age. And so when you are thinking about changing, I really look at the three priorities. And if I'm starting to look, I look at the organization, the leader who may not be the manager, by the way, then the manager, and then the job. And I have, so did I say, oh, I'm missing marketing, for example. Now, mostly it'd be like, what's that organization look like and can it offer what I want? And I have had a lot where a job has opened up and someone said, hey, why don't you think about doing this? So fortunately, a lot hasn't been me looking at jobs online and trying to find something. But I usually try to take a pretty systemic view of where I'm going to be and how much risk I want to take.

Mary Killelea: That is so important. The thought process and things that you consider is really the environment of the group that you're going to go in, the leadership in which that group is driven by, because ultimately that trickles down.

Shelley Wagner: It does.

Mary Killelea: What are some other important questions that you ask yourself or give advice for those that you coach on looking at taking a role?

Shelley Wagner: Well, I think one of the things besides the three priorities is, so if I was going to say, hey, Mary, I see you're looking at three different jobs, tell me about them. And even if I'm not on video and I'm just listening to your voice, I can tell which one's you're excited about. And to me, that's important. I mean, some people may not do it, but that keeps us engaged and active. So, I think it's important to be excited and maybe to understand why you're excited, but you don't really need to. And then for me, and I think most people, it has to make you a little uncomfortable. I mean, you want to learn and grow. Otherwise, you're going to get bored in six months. And of course, there's the conversation depending on where they are in their career and if they want to get promoted, what the scope looks like.

Mary Killelea: Right. What have been some of your biggest challenges that you faced over your career and how have you successfully dealt with them?

Shelley Wagner: So I think the biggest challenge I had is in my mid thirties, I was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease. And at the time, you know, it was like, you know, hey, you have Hashimoto's, here's some pills, which I took for my thyroid. And I went on with life till about four years later, I hit the wall. And it has been a constant battle since then. And I had to make some pretty significant choices. I mean, Intel's very intense. I had to make choices about balance and sleep and very strict diet. I always worked out for stress relief. And at some point in time, I started winning and then I took a job as an obstructor for a corporate VP for about two and a half years. And it was insane. It was insane. I mean, I liked it, but it was insane. I worked way too much and I lost all my boundaries. And I'm going to go to the hospital. I basically had, I mean, I was actually in my mind thinking, am I going to have to retire? So we're not doing that anymore. So for me, it's just balance it now, especially with COVID. I've had to actually do things I've never done before. Like I block off my lunch. I block off, I will allow certain amount and 7am meetings and certain amount of 5pm. And so, I negotiate either with myself or my boss, but those are, that's one of the criteria's about picking a job.

Mary Killelea: And that is excellent that you touched on that. And I really haven't touched on that on any previous podcast. So I'm so glad we're talking about that here. Boundaries. Boundaries are so important and they're so difficult to set, especially when you're building your career and you don't want to be considered a person who pushes back on things or who's not willing to do things. But in your case, obviously the health issues, that was a driving factor, but everyone should have health and space and rest and recuperation and family time as priorities and built into their considerations of setting their own boundaries. What other advice would you say for someone who's afraid of being looked at in those ways?

Shelley Wagner: Working longer and output is not what gets promoted. Maybe when you're more junior, it does not get you more promoted. And there is some pretty fascinating research, especially with women, that they have a tendency to focus on output. And we fool ourselves that producing more is going to get us promoted and it does not. It's having impact. And so also, you walk away with a lot, if you're really busy, you will not get tapped for the strategic opportunities. So, it's kind of looking at it in a different lens, because we think if we do all the work, we're going to be rewarded and often we are not.

Mary Killelea: Well, I have learned that. And I would say I've learned that more recently, probably in the last couple of years of my career is to really, when I have a full plate or when I have a full inbox, I look at what aligns to my insights review and what I'm being held accountable for.

Shelley Wagner: Right. And that's perfect. Because usually when we get really busy, we get very myopic and we forget to step back and think, what are the priorities? What are the bigger priorities that I've talked to my boss about? And so that's a really good advice for anybody.

Mary Killelea: So I love that you're a coach. Intel has an amazing coaching and mentoring program available to all employees. How did you get into coaching? What was involved and what drew you to coaching? I'm so curious.

Shelley Wagner: Alright. So, this was quite a while ago. I've been a coach for over 15 years. So in about 2003, I kept hearing these conversations with a group of people where someone was asking these amazing questions. And now I laugh because I went around to like instructors and I kept saying, is there a book? And I would try to explain it. And finally, I think I landed on David Dotledge, Actionable Coaching. I think that's the name of it. And it's very small, but it talked about kind of some, he had a one page was there, here's 10 things. And if you have like six or seven, you're probably a natural coach. And that it gave me the ability to start having a conversation with my manager. And he was awesome because even though I had to negotiate just a bit with him and put it in my development plan, Intel did pay for my coaching certification. And it's about a year, most programs. And this one was in Santa Barbara, which was beautiful. And it was right brain. So I got my MBA while I was working at Intel. That was wicked, wickedly hard. Like there was no sleep, no social life, nothing. But the coaching, it's very right brain. So, it was very doable on top of a full-time job. And then from there, so you get a certificate. And then now it's really, I think one of the main companies, International Coaching Federation does the accreditation. So, when I was doing it, people like, oh, it'd be nice if you were accredited, but now it's a standard thing. I mean, people, most coaches, they'll say, are you accredited? Just because the industry has grown quite a bit.

Mary Killelea: Can you talk about the coaching program and what specifically, like, do you have a specialty?

Shelley Wagner: I mostly coach internal to Intel. I mean, there's lots of coaches that are coaches at Intel and also take clients outside. And this is my balance. So occasionally I'll do something outside, but mostly I do inside. So, we have profiles and I do spot coaching is one of them where someone will, anybody, really it will be anybody. They'll just schedule an hour and they have a very specific, like one thing. It's usually one hour. Now I also do assessments. I have Hogan, which is a leadership and then Cornferry, which is some of the stuff we're doing for our executives profiling. And so that will go through spots coaching too, if it's not a client that I'm working with. And then there's leadership, which is more of a, with Intel, since we have a common language, it can be three to four months externally, a lot of times that's six months. And those are longer term. And I've done quite a bit of that. And I tend to, if you read my profile, for some reason, I draw people who are looking for transitions. So, I don't have a special, and by the way, I do coach men, but for some reason I tend to be coaching a lot of women. And so people who are either thinking about making a change or negotiating their current situation or think they need to get promoted, those are the people that for some reason tend to, that's the kind of leadership coaching I tend to do.

Mary Killelea: What, if I may ask, do you see as a common thread or theme amongst those women who seek you out for those transitioning points in their career?

Shelley Wagner: Well, the first one, unfortunately, is we'll be talking and they want to promo. And my first question is, what did your manager say? And 99% of the time they're like, oh, I didn't tell him or her. I'm like, okay, well, let's talk, let's start with the beginning. Like you won't get promoted if you don't ask for it or at least have a conversation about it. So that's very, very common. Most of time coaching, because it's a peer relationship, we don't get performance problems. So, we wouldn't coach someone who is saying I'm failing. So we don't get that, that goes to some other place. So that's the first one. Balance, how do I do set my priorities? And a lot of that is what we just talked about. What are the priorities in your insights? What are the priorities of your job? So mostly it's transition. And I think sometimes we do mission work, like, do they have a personal mission? You know, what's, you know, what's their purpose? What are they, what does success look like? And I've had a few where communication, you know, you know, they're having some conflicts, and then we talk about patterns, like how much, what do they own versus what is another person? But a lot of it is transition.

Mary Killelea: That's so great that you're there helping women through these, these steps. I think that's just fantastic. When it comes to networking, we know in a big corporation, it can be difficult, but it can be also just so important. What tips do you have around advice for someone who wants, who should be doing networking that's just not comfortable with it?

Shelley Wagner: Well, first, I'm going to say networking is really important. And it's really important to do networking inside and outside of Intel or any company you're in, because you never know where all of a sudden you may be leaving Intel and you don't know anybody. I think it becomes just some very specific things. You have to be authentic to yourself. So maybe, especially if someone's an introvert, I'm like, don't make small talk because you don't just because you think it is. I said, do something that's purpose driven, like I'd say, Hey, Mary, tell me about your job. And what are your top two challenges? And then you start get it, you can actually paint a picture as you're talking with people. And, you know, sometimes it's a social thing, but, and there's all kinds of groups you can do networking in. So you could do one of the employee resource groups where they have events. And I think part of it is to try to get where they're comfortable.

Mary Killelea: What are you most proud of, through of your career?

Shelley Wagner: I had to think about this one. So I started when I started Intel, I actually was hired as contractor and I was doing a sabbatical coverage. And then they, you know, when they came back, they offered me, it was like, I don't know, I loaded the factory kind of an analyst job. And I, it was still, there was still hiring freeze, but I started as an hourly non-exempt, even though I had a degree. So for people who know Intel's grade system, that was a 35. And I got promoted through up through the non-exempt, which would have been two more levels. And we don't even have a grade two anymore, grade two, all the way up to director. And I, I feel pretty proud about that.

Mary Killelea: That is something to be very, very proud of. That's, that's wonderful. If you could tell your 20 year old self something, what would it be?

Shelley Wagner: Oh, I would have not to strive so hard that basically, if I hadn't, I kind of was very intense and I think basically things work out how they're supposed to. And sometimes they may not work out the way you wanted them, but it could be better. So I probably wouldn't have stressed on that as much as I did.

Mary Killelea: What's the best piece of career advice you've ever received?

Shelley Wagner: Gosh, this was quite a while ago. There was a fellow, she came from academia and she was speaking at one of the women's conferences. And she was talking a little bit about how business started from the military. So it was very male dominated. She had a lot of research and I reached out to her after the conference because she said a few things that kind of were life-changing for me at the time. So some of the research she shared with me is that women can get very attached to their data analysis or whatever they're presenting. So, it's their baby, their project. So when they present, they get defensive because it's theirs. And by gosh, everything's right because I just spent a lot of time getting it right where generically speaking, men don't do this. So, they don't get defensive. And that I was experiencing that in my career at that time. And I of course was the only woman on a staff and I went and I did a lot of research and her and I've used it a lot in coaching to say, have you found? And so, I've had it reinforced many times, but by really understanding that I can have a dialogue about this data and it doesn't reflect on me, whether people accept it or not was a pretty big shift that I needed and to continue to advance. And so, and just from stress, it's a lot less stressful too.

Mary Killelea: That's such great advice. And when you say it, it makes so much sense, but you don't realize it until it's said out loud.

Shelley Wagner: Yes, exactly. I mean, I remember her speaking and I about fell off my chair thinking, oh my God, that's me.

Mary Killelea: What does to be bolder mean to you?

Shelley Wagner: To me, it's, I think it's really important to be authentic to yourself. You gotta get uncomfortable and stretch yourself, stretch yourself and then take some risk. And so that's kind of what it means to me.

Mary Killelea: What is next for you? Where do you see yourself in three to five years?

Shelley Wagner So in about a year, I'll be looking for a different job, but in the three to five year timeframe, I'll be transitioning out of Intel. And I think it will probably obviously be into coaching in more of a pro, what I call pro retirement. So probably not full time and maybe more giving back. So, whether I'm not going to like making money is not going to be on my top three priorities. It would be like, can I give back to the community? Can I work with like high school kids or women who need it? And since I don't have it quite figured out, I just have this kind of high level. I'm actually working with Pam Dittner, a very gifted marketing professional. And we're kind of mapping that out. So, that's my plan is to kind of get it, get it so I can have like a fairly dynamic, but guideline of what that might look like.

Mary Killelea: You have to be so proud of having that as like where you are in life, still having a fulfilling career now, but knowing that your next season or chapter, you don't have to think about money in the sense of it being a driving decision maker that you actually get to look at, like just truly what, what do you want to fill your days and what kind of impact you have that that is…

Shelley Wagner: It's a gift. I mean, I feel very grateful. It's very, very grateful.

Mary Killelea: Well, that's fantastic. Any good books or podcasts you can recommend?

Shelley Wagner: Alright. I have a couple. So I'm actually right now in a master level, it's called systemic team coaching program, which is awesome. So all the books I'm reading there, no, I wouldn't be recommending them, but I have two books and then one of my coaching clients when we are finished, he gave me a subscription to Masterclass, which by the way, and of course I am, so I mentioned, I have a very strict diet, but I love food and so I cook a lot. And so Thomas Keller, Gordon Ramsey, I'm all about the cooking classes and I so enjoy that and I've, I've probably got three or four other people. I'm like, you have to do it. I bought it for my mother for Christmas or sorry, my dad bought it for her, but I bought it for him. The two that as I was looking at, I think are great books, especially women is The Art of Possibility, not a new book. It's been out for a long time. But the other one is called Thanks for the Feedback. And it's by it's Douglas Stone and Sheila Heen. And I saw Sheila, she actually came to one of our coaching face to faces. And the reason this book is fantastic is it talks about how you receive feedback and most people aren't very good at it. And they recognize that. And so I really think it's a good book to look at.

Mary Killelea: Well, I love that you just gave me a new book that I hadn't ever heard of. And I'm sure the audience may or may not have but thank you for that. And the Masterclass, I actually got that for myself for Christmas last year and I highly recommend that as well. So that's amazing. Okay, before we wrap up anything else that you wanted to say that we haven't touched on, I want to make sure that you have this opportunity with such a rich career to share.

Shelley Wagner: Well, first, thank you, Mary. This has been really fun. And I mean, because I'm managing a podcast from a different end. I am so thrilled. I'm calling this project of yours, your personal passion project. And I'm really impressed. I, you know, a lot of people are passionate about something, but they don't actually put into fruition. So I'm very impressed about that. And I think for me where I'm at, COVID is a very interesting situation. And I feel very grateful for both the people that I have in my life, not that I get to see very many of them and just the work that I'm doing, because I think it would be pretty difficult to be going through this thing without those connections and this coaching system, team coaching, I meet with a team every week. And those are kind of my, keeping me grounded in this strange time. And I feel very grateful for that.

Mary Killelea: Well, thank you very much. How could someone get in touch with you if they wanted to reach out to you and learn more?

Shelley Wagner: LinkedIn or Twitter, Twitter, you may see a whole bunch of security posts and definitely podcasts, but LinkedIn, for sure. I, I own the social media for our podcasts. So I'm actually on it quite a lot.

Mary Killelea: Oh, good. Well, I can't thank you enough. I appreciate you joining me on a Saturday to record this and just sharing your story. It's been wonderful.

Shelley Wagner: Thank you so much. This has been very enjoyable.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two little b bolder.com.