Career Growth Advice from Lora Muller, Supply Chain Management Leader | Career Tips for Women in Supply Chain Management

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 33
Featuring Lora Muller

Episode Title: #33 Career Podcast Featuring Lora Muller, Supply Chain Director at Tektronix Component Solutions – Women In Business

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Lora Muller



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Today I'm happy to have on the show a woman that is well known and respected for being skilled in supply chain management, cross-functional team leadership, areas of manufacturing, including procurement, logistics, product development, purchasing, negotiating, process engineering, and forecasting, just to touch on a few. Lora Muller is the supply chain director at Tektronix Components Solutions. She has over 20 years of experience in supply chain and several years experience as a commodity manager. In addition to her full-time role, she is currently the co-chair of the supply chain management program through PCC and a member of the Oregon State University Advisory Board for their supply chain management program. Lora, thank you for being on the show.

Lora Muller (Guest): Thank you. I'm happy to be here. It sounds impressive when you read it like that, by the way.

Mary Killelea: It is impressive.

Lora Muller: It's just me.

Mary Killelea: No, it's very cool. I'm excited to hear about your career specifically because I don't know anyone who is in supply chain, so I have so many questions that I want to ask. I know the audience wants to learn about this. So, can you tell us about how you got started and how you ended up being the director over at Tektronix?

Lora Muller: From the beginning of my career, I didn't really start out thinking, oh, I want to be in supply chain, but I have always been attracted to business and my family actually owned their own business. So I started working as most children of entrepreneurial parents when I was like seven. And I had a really strong work ethic, but I was always taught, if there's something you want to go do, you should go do it. So, I learned how to drive a forklift. I learned how to do things that maybe girls quote unquote don't do. And so, I really got into supply chain when I was at ESI, which is Electro Scientific Industries, which was acquired by MKS a few years back here in Portland. And the reason I did is I'd been doing global customer service and export administration for a few years at ESI and they were re-orging and they were going to send me over to work in customer service attached to global services. And I said that's great. I like that. But I think I could really help out on the other side of the coin. I think I could go do that and I'd be good at it. And I asked our CFO, because he came to me and had a conversation with me on that topic. And he said, okay, go talk to the manufacturing manager. So I did. And I think it's initiative is what started me down the path.

Mary Killelea: Oh, absolutely. That's confidence and initiative. That's wonderful. And such a good lesson, because had you not spoken up, we wouldn't be sitting here. I mean, we would be here sitting here talking about a different role that you were taking, but maybe one that you didn't find is fulfilling.

Lora Muller: Right. Right. When I started in supply chain, it wasn't glamorous. It was very much they gave me metal machining and sheet metal and told me to go be a scheduler because I didn't know much about it. And so that was what they sent me to go do. And it was not a good, I mean, it was challenging. It wasn't pretty. I didn't like think, wow, this is my dream job. But the problem solving was there. And for me, that's what my career has been based on is really problem solving. And coming from that entrepreneurial background, and then being able to solve problems, that for me has been like the key to most of my success, as well as what really drives my spark. But at ESI, they sent me to school. I didn't have a college degree at ESI. So, I graduated at 31 based on them paying for my finishing up of my degree. And because the same gentleman who said, the CFO who said, Well, what do you want to do? He also said to me, well, that's great that you want to do that. We like you, you don't have a degree. So if you want to change where you are, you should go do X, Y, and Z. And one of those things was get a degree. He did write my recommendation to go back to school. And in that, I mean, those were some pivotal conversations.

Mary Killelea: That's fantastic. So what does an average day look like for you in your role?

Lora Muller: Sure. So, my average day is one where I'm not really doing tactical day to day. So, when you think about supply chain, people think, Oh, you're issuing purchase orders, or you're doing this or doing that. In my role, I am driving the highest level of strategy. And thinking about where do we want to drive our organization? Or what do we need to fix? What are the problems worth fixing? And that's where I kind of get in and either certain day to day factory operational ticks that I have to complete, and make sure that we're on track and flowing, because that's always the number one thing. And then the other side of that is, is what problems are worth solving? And then should we go do that? So, should we improve our on time delivery? Or should we do something strategic? And we apply our resources there. So that's kind of that my day doesn't look typical day in and day out. And it's always also very important to me to take care of the people who work with for me in my organization, I have 23, direct, well, not direct, but I have 23 individuals that report into my team. And I take their I take responsibility for them also. So if there's something that, you know, if someone offends someone on the dock, which just just happened, a gentleman was very COVID unfriendly and offended my employees. So I had to stop, listen, and then send a message that said, I we don't accept this. It's not part of our values. So that can be my day. Yeah.

Mary Killelea: So it's a lot about looking at inefficiencies.

Lora Muller: Yes, yes.

Mary Killelea: What kind of skills do you think have that you have that set you up for success, you or someone looking to career in this field?

Lora Muller: Sure, sure. I call these my superpowers. And I have superpowers. And I think we all do, we just may not recognize them or may not take the time to see to acknowledge our show up. And so where I show up is I listen, I will listen to whatever it is, or whatever the problem is. And I'm very good at problem solving. So, in my career, I've been a I was a champion problem solver at Lam Research, which is, I was, I felt really good that that's that was what I was given the opportunity to do. But I think it was really all about helping others think in a logical, deductive manner. And you have to do that in a way that you can remove that not the humanity but remove the emotion and get to the root. So that's one of my good skills but also bring people along. And the way you do that is good communication skills. And that doesn't mean speaking well. That means listening.

Mary Killelea: A buzzword that I've recognized recently is emotional intelligence. And this seems to equate to that is like, being able to listen as well as be respectful, as well as give others the opportunity to connect in a deeper way.

Lora Muller: Yes, agreed. And I think that's part of what makes some individuals really good in leadership and other individuals, maybe not as I call it follow worthy. Because when you lead people, they have to want to come along. And when you listen, when they know you're listening and caring about what they need or what maybe their challenges are, you might not be able to fix everything. And that's not within my bailiwick to be able to do that. But I can be respectful of their perspective and understand what their challenges are, acknowledge it, but not necessarily be able to solve it. And that is something that you have to just be able to step back and turn your, turn your ears up and your mouth off. I used to do a lot of work in China and a gentleman said, two ears, one mouth. Use them proportionately.

Mary Killelea: And I know this may sound a little bit sexist, but I think this is where women have just an innate ability because we do that as mothers, we do that all the time in life. And if we apply it to work, it's just a natural talent that we have.

Lora Muller: It is. I think one of the things though that I try very hard to do is not to interrupt someone or not to, not to talk too much. So, I will always pause, even when I'm presenting, I will always pause and say, does anyone have any questions or are you aligned? And that's a term I use often because I think that brings people in is, are you aligned to what I'm saying? Do you get it? Now as women, I will say this. I have been spoken to in ways where I've thought to myself, huh, I'll bet that that person probably wouldn't say that to anyone else or that's probably not appropriate for them to have said, but I don't respond. And that's also a tough skill to learn.

Mary Killelea: That in itself is a response.

Lora Muller: Yeah, yeah, it is. When someone says something that is not polite or not appropriate or whatever, and especially in some of the industries that I have worked in, in my career, I have learned, and it doesn't matter if it's a man or a woman, doesn't matter. I have learned just to breathe. If someone says something, just take a deep breath and let that pause hang because that's not a reflection on you.

Mary Killelea: That is such good advice.

Lora Muller: Yeah. And that then allows you to calm down. Reaction and emotional intelligence, I'll just say, I think you shouldn't be unemotional or unpassionate about what you do, but the way you present yourself can take away your credibility if you become emotional. So, you're breathing, and this is something that you learn in certain, like my son did karate when he was in grade school. And I loved that guy who taught us karate because he could get all those kids to breathe. And, but that's what the trick is. It's the breathing. And you'll notice that when you get excited, your voice gets higher. So if you calmly expand, sit up a little higher and just let it go.

Mary Killelea: Wow. Good, good tip. Let's talk strategy for a sec. How do you develop your strategy muscle, if you will, on, on thinking things strategically?

Lora Muller: Great question. So, a lot of times just starts with the very basic of what is the problem statement? What is it? Is it a problem worth solving? What is the problem or what is, what is it that I need to go and do? So, if you have a need to be strategic, you can't get down in the details and start talking about itsy bitsy, as I call them. You won't get the traction when, when you want to talk about strategy, you have to look out and say, okay, so I'm here with my head down, I need to look up and take a lay of the land of what, what is it that's around that I need to fix or whatever it is. So, I can use material examples that might bore people, but let's say there's a specific kind of metal that you can't get, or it's not available because processing houses are shut down because of Texas, perhaps, or something example like, like that. How am I going to take care of that? Or what am I going to do? Well, today I'm going to make phone calls and call people and do things. In the future, though, my strategy is going to be that I probably have a safety stock and maybe I have my other supplier who also provides me some of these other metals. Maybe I have them hold a safety stock and maybe I have this plan, this strategy of what will I do to mitigate so I don't ever have this issue again. So, you think today I have this problem, how do I get rid of this problem? And also make sure that down the road, I don't have that problem. And I do think that there's a need to teach strategic thinking more.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, I agree with that. I agree with that. Speaking of school, how hard was it for you to go back and what was, what degree did you end up going in for?

Lora Muller: Yeah, so great question. I always, so I got married very young and at 22 and did not finish, I was this close to finishing my degree, but I'm holding up my fingers and it's like three quarters of an inch. So, I only had about two more terms to go, three more terms to go. But I did get married and I got, I decided I would go to work and I would finish later. And then I was 30 and I wasn't done. So, after I had the mentor meeting with the CFO at ESI, I went back to school and got my bachelor's degree. I had a two and a half year old at home while I was studying managerial and organizational leadership. So, I studied and I got my degree and I got a four point because I had to turn my grades in and I didn't want people to know that I was not effective. And then I always wanted to go back and get an MBA, but I graduated pregnant with my second child, walked across the stage. And I always wanted to go get my second degree, my master's, but I never had time. And unfortunately, after 18 years of marriage, I got a divorce, I still wanted to get my master's degree, but now I'm a single mom. So, I couldn't go do that. And then later along the way I met someone who is my incredible husband. And I said, Hey, I've always wanted to go get my master's degree. And he said, why are you not doing that? And that's how I knew that I was going to marry him.

But that is how I went and got my master's degree. And I talked about it enough for a year or two. And this is how I got myself to do it because it's hard, Mary, and that's a great question. But I used my negotiating skills with myself. And I said to people, like my friends, I would say, I'm going to go get my master's degree. I'm thinking about it and I'm going to get a master's in global strategy because that's what I do anyway, is I globally manage supply chain. And finally, it got to a point where I said this to enough people that they started to repeat it back to me. And then my husband was like, I don't understand why you're not getting a master's degree. And so and that's when I went back.

Mary Killelea: God, that's so great. Congratulations. That's been on my bucket list. Believe me.

Lora Muller: It was on mine.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. You talked about negotiating. Yes. What tips do you have for women in business when we just bring up the word negotiating?

Lora Muller: Yeah, I smile. I'm rich. You know, I'll be honest. So, a couple of things that people have for negotiating or for that one, it might be that it's public speaking, or it might be that it's asking for something you don't have. And it's fear. I probably am leaning forward into the fearless space more. So I have traveled throughout Asia on my own. I have spoken in front of a group of 40 Chinese engineers with a translator and told them that they better stop changing my designs. You know, right. So, I guess I'm not afraid of negotiations, because I learned when I was a kid, my dad would say the worst thing you will hear when you negotiate is the word no. That's all. And that's not a problem. That's just one word. And there's a but after that, usually. So, if you never ask, and I've told many people who have reported to me as an I've mentored, and I'm currently mentoring some students at OSU right now on their supply chain program, if the worst word you hear is no, you're doing okay, it's all right. And no doesn't mean that it stops. And also, no one is uploaded with mind reading software. So, if you think someone's going to come along and say, Hey, would you really like this? Or would you would you like a raise? Or would you like, you know, to go and do some new job? No one's gonna do that. You have to do that.

Mary Killelea: My dad always told me it's no until you ask. And then it's maybe your yes or it remains to know, but you don't know.

Lora Muller: Well, I asked once for a different job at an organization that I worked at. And they said they came back and they had interviewed everyone in the group. And I did not get that job, which is a good thing for me to learn. It's a good lesson that I learned. And the gentleman who said, Hey, look, really liked you, you came in really high, but we have someone else who has more experience and we're going to have to give him this job. I said, that's fine. And he said, Well, I hope I hope you don't take this the wrong way. I said, No, no, no, it's fine. But we all have choices to make. And so the choice I made was like nine months later, I left and went and found a better job of higher, I went and did what I needed to do. So so if you ask for something and you don't get the answer you want, it may be a different kind of message for you.

Mary Killelea: God, this is fun. Okay. So in your job, you manage all aspects of manufacturing, you know, procurement, delivery, warehousing, efficiencies, etc. Do you have a favorite?

Lora Muller: Okay, so I really like there's two things I really like. I really like the idea of making things a lot. And I always have like factories. So I have toured factories globally, and it just, it just, I'm passionate about that because there's process. It's just so awesome to know that everything is executing. All the things are on time, the flow is good. So, I guess if you had to ask me what's the one thing I really like it's a humming factory. But the second thing I really like is supplier management. Because when you're doing successfully, and you're successfully managing a supplier, it's like this symbiotic goodness, everyone's making money, everyone's successful, and we're aligned for business. And that's what I like about what I do.

Mary Killelea: So I'm assuming COVID, when everything just like shut down, and everything was still, you had to pivot.

Lora Muller: Yeah.

Mary Killelea: Let's talk about pivoting for a sec. What does that mean when you have to react? And how could someone approach that in a, in a constructive way?

Lora Muller: Yeah, honestly, COVID has been hard for so many people. And I feel very blessed for the journey I have been on during COVID. First of all, in supply chain, there's a lot that has happened that has infringed upon people's ability just even to get toilet paper. That's a supply chain issue. You have to remain calm. I have found that if there's so many ways that COVID touches us, that is not like anything else we've ever experienced. So, I actually interviewed remotely, virtually, and took this role during COVID. And so, you can adapt, you can change, you can do things. But you also have to acknowledge that you can't do things as freely as you want to. I have actually been very fortunate to be able to help other states and other organizations through COVID because of the Supply Chain Advisory Council. We've actually participated to help coach some states with how do you find certain things, because they don't problem solve and get outside their box. So that's been really interesting. So I think really it's been a patience and self care time because everyone has, again, this touches you in your life in a way that nothing has ever done. So I've been very careful with just being professionally compassionate.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. What are some key learnings from some of the challenges you've faced over the years in business?

Lora Muller: One of the challenges, earlier in my career was, um, I looked really young and so I have been asked to go get coffee before, sorry, before a meeting. Someone sent me to go get coffee, from the company that I, that was there to meet with me and they didn't know who I was. And I went and got coffee and I came back and then we all sat down and then we all got interviewed. We all, we all said who we were and what our roles were. And this guy turned like four shades of red. So I learned that people should know their audience. So that was one of my lessons. The other lesson is if it's not the right path, I'm on, I'll go down a different path. I can go down a different path. I can pivot. I've had to do that in my personal life and I've had to do that in my professional life and change is not bad. I don't have a problem with driving change myself or following change if it presents itself, because we're still going to be on the other side.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. I think that's critical for a lot of people. And obviously the last year has, has proven that is, is having the ability to know you can't control change, change is inevitable. It's how you react and how you adapt that really impacts your life. What would you say there, if there are any misconceptions about career spots, a career in supply management?

Lora Muller: Well, when I look at what I have done for my career and, and I think I think there is a challenge to see that there aren't as many women in this type of work. There are times when I feel that I'm able to get things done because I have certain concerns, but I also have certain intuitions. And those are, again, that's part of my superpowers. Um, those are things that I, I can lean on a bit or ask questions of people and connect people into the why better. So, the misconception might be that I'm not an engineer. Okay. Yeah. I'm not an engineer. I know when I don't know, that's my superpower to you is that knowing when you don't know, knowing when you should ask for some help, knowing when you should pivot and go. I think just being aware, but you have to get past your emotions to do that.

Mary Killelea: Those are some great superpowers. You speak Spanish. I saw that. How beneficial would you say having a second language is to someone who might go down this career path?

Lora Muller: I don't think it's a necessity, but I will say global awareness, global cultural awareness. So I'll, so a quick story. I have worked, in fact, I worked with a gentleman at two different companies and he was from Monterey, Mexico. In fact, I got him his second job at the company I worked for because I said, you guys grew up in the same town to the director who was hiring for this job. You should hire this guy. But he and I would speak Spanish when we would travel and it was great because we'd go to China. They would debrief in English and they would debrief in Chinese. So we would debrief in Spanish, which was great because no one could understand us. Except for one time in Taiwan, there was a woman who spoke Spanish who was Taiwanese. That was the only time that ever happened. But I was culturally aware of my coworker and he was a great individual to work with. He was very smart and capable, but there were things that were challenging for him because it was a second language. So, I think having a second language for myself, when I speak Spanish, it's hard for me. Like I have to actively listen and then I have to translate and then it can come out or I can write it. And I'm pretty good with Spanish, especially after I've been there on vacation for two weeks or something. My Spanish improves, but I learned how hard it is for him just to say, escarde or derecho. Cause he gets that confused or used to when we would travel and that's left and right. But if you're trying to think and translate and walk and move and travel, that's a lot. So I think that it taught me how to be more sensitive to a global environment and more aware of people's body language.

So I was in South Korea once negotiating with a very, very, very large battery manufacturer by the name of Samsung. And it was in a meeting and the gentlemen were not happy with each other. And I had brought someone with me who spoke Korean. And I said to him, I said, are they fighting? And he said, oh yes, they've been fighting the whole time. He didn't tell me this, of course, right. Because I didn't ask directly for it. And that's part of what happens in business globally is unless you say it directly, you don't get that. And I said, I can tell by their body language that they're very upset with each other. He goes, Oh, you're so smart, Lora. Yes. They, they don't like each other at all. And they've said bad names to each other throughout the whole meeting. And I thought this is, I'm not getting what I want out of this. So, we took a break and we kind of joked a little bit and came back and I asked him to translate what I would say. And I said, I'm so glad that we're all here. It's so important for us to be able to make progress. And it's so valuable for us to be able to work with your company. And I didn't, wasn't doing it to scold them. I was doing it just to bring everyone back together and just remind them why we were there. And so that to me is also that global mindset that. So speaking a foreign language, I think has taught me a little bit of humility because I do get the words wrong sometimes. But I, I was brought up that we all had to have a second language because my dad told me that we were going to be in a global world someday. And we are.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, that, that speaks to global language on so many different levels. Wow. Okay. We talked earlier about the gentleman who was your mentor. Can we come back to that and tell me about your working with him, how that evolved? Was it like a, what's the word I'm looking for? A clear, like I need a mentor, you're a mentor, or did it just develop over time? Did he see potential in you and what advice do you have for others who might need or want to mentor?

Lora Muller: So that's a great question. And I really think that mentoring for me is something that I do regularly and with purpose. That particular mentor was the CFO of ESI and probably took the time. He wasn't, it wasn't like I didn't go to him and say, had really like a mentor. He saw me leaving a meeting, went over, tapped me on the shoulder and said, did you know you're the only person in this room without a college degree? And I said, no, I didn't, but thanks for letting me know. I mean, what was I supposed to say? I mean, I was like caught off guard completely. I said, well, I said, no, I didn't know that. But thank you for letting me know, kind of, oh, and I said, well, what would you do? And he said, well, I'll think about that and I'll get back to you. And then later he sent me a note, an email, and he said, you should go talk to so and so in HR about our program for paying for education. And I said, okay. So I did. And then I went back later and I emailed him later and I said, I went and talked to her and by the way, I'm probably going to need some letters of recommendation. Would you mind being so kind as to write a letter of recommendation? And he said, sure, no problem. So, he did. I don't know to this day what he said in that, but I know it was good because they said, we saw your CFO sent a letter of recommendation. Later I just kind of kept him informed. But he told me that look, we like you, like he would say, like nice things. Like he would say, you're good. You're good at what you do. You can get things done and create velocity. That's another thing that I'm pretty good at. And, and so you should want to stay here because we would like you to, but we need you to do this in order to do that.

So, I stayed for ESI for almost 10 years and I really think that part of it was that he said something to me, but I then also went back and asked later, can I go and work on the supply chain? And he said, yes, go talk to so-and-so. Now you have to be willing to go talk to people. That's a part of what mentoring is about. And I think it's harder for younger people because there's a lot of phones and there's not as much communication directly. Mentoring is really about developing a relationship with someone that is sincere. And I mentor. Right now, I'm mentoring three people. I'm mentoring someone that works in my organization who I meet with every other week and he's newer to supply chain. So I help him develop his mental model of not just the tacticals of what he's doing, but the, why, what does that mean? How does that connect into the system of, of ERP and manufacturing? I am mentoring two, two, uh, students at Oregon State University in the supply chain program, one in, in the master's program and one in the, um, bachelor's program. And for them, I'm teaching them kind of, well, one individual, I really, she's near and dear to my heart because she's quieter. And it reminds me of me when I was younger. There was a time when I was quieter. And you have to look up, you have to lift your head up. You have to think and you have to talk to people and she's doing a great job. But she has shared with me some of her challenges and kind of quandary of COVID, not feeling connected at school, you know, not, not necessarily feeling connected into what she's doing. So I've been able to say, you know, look, think of how the bigger picture works and, and connect her into some people to talk to. Because that's one of the things that we can do for one another is help.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's so great. Uh, what would you tell your 20 year old self if you could go back in time?

Lora Muller: You should have gotten your master's degree sooner. Just because if I talk about that for just a second, it really took my business understanding and acumen and just really helped me understand the connectivity of how everything fits in. Um, and I'd studied accounting before and I'd studied finance before, but where I was at in my career, when I did my MBA, it just made everything fall into place. And it also was something that was interesting to me because a lot of the students were younger than me and didn't have as much experience. And so I still learned though, and I learned from them. So that was, that was something I was unexpected.

Mary Killelea: When you're hiring or looking, um, to add someone new to the team or, or even mentoring, what advice do you tell people, um, or what do you hope they deliver in a job interview?

Lora Muller: Well, you can train people to do things. You can train people to do tasks, but you have to be able to get along and you have to be able to work as a team and you have to be able to sometimes say I'm wrong and do something different. So to me, I think it's the softness, right? It's, it's, it's can you fit into our culture? Too many times people think, oh, they've got this capability and they know this language and they know this engineering discipline and so on and so forth. So they're clearly going to be able to fit in the team. And I've worked with some very smart people who really are hard to work with. And that means you don't get as much done and you also don't like your job.

Mary Killelea: Right. What's next for you? Where do you see yourself in three to five years?

Lora Muller: Well, so I'm not really sure. I'm interested in leadership and I took the job at Techtronix as, as a director of supply chain here at CSO, um, because they have kind of a path that agrees with me in terms of being able to expand my career. I enjoy organizational success. And that's what I really, if, if at the 50,000 foot level, it's organizational optimization and bringing the people with that. So that's what I see myself doing. And I'm excited because it's not just Techtronix, but also Tektronix is parent company, Fordive, which is located up in Washington, but they, they, they are doing the right things. It aligns with my values. So I feel good. That's what I'm planning on doing is continuing to be awesome.

Mary Killelea: Oh my God. I have enjoyed this so much. I've learned so much. I have great respect for you. Um, you've left just like oodles of tips and nuggets. So, thank you for that. How can someone get in touch with you? They want to reach out and learn more.

Lora Muller: Yeah. So I am on LinkedIn. Um, my LinkedIn profile is pretty thorough, but it only goes back 10 years as Mary now knows. Uh, and it's Laura L O R A Muller, M U L L E R. And I'm out and about, um, even in COVID still attending virtually meetings with the community and in supply chain and doing other things. So look out for me.

Mary Killelea: Hey, it's been awesome. Thank you so much. I appreciate your time and willingness to share your story.

Lora Muller: Well, thank you for having this kind of sharing opportunity. I think it's great.

Mary Killelea: I forgot to ask you one question. We have to end on this one. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Lora Muller: To be bolder. Okay. So to be bolder is different than lean in, right? To be bolder is to look up. To be bolder is to take that next step, lean forward with a stride, not just lean in.

Mary Killelea: Awesome.

Lora Muller: Is that good?

Mary Killelea: That's fabulous.

Lora Muller: Okay. It was such a pleasure to speak with you.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at to be bolder.com. That's the number two, little b, bolder.com.