Career Growth Advice from Dr. Toni Collis, Career Development Leader | Career Tips for Women in Career Development

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 37
Featuring Dr. Toni Collis

Episode Title: #37 Career Podcast Featuring Dr. Toni Collis, a Woman in the HPC Industry & a Successful Leadership Coach: Women In Tech

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Dr. Toni Collis

Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Thanks for tuning in. I am super excited to chat with our guest today. Dr. Toni Collis is the CEO of Collis-Homes Innovations. She is a strategic innovation leader, trainer, consultant and leadership coach. She's well known and respected in supercomputing, high performance computing, not only for her dedicated work for founding and leading the women in HPC, but after having a successful executive career at Appentra and learning firsthand the realities and challenges women face in business, she now dedicates her life helping other women overcome these challenges to achieve their desired success. And not only that, she is the host of this great podcast called Leading Women in Tech. Dr. Collis, thank you for joining me on the show. It's great to have you here.

Dr. Toni Collis (Guest): Oh, it's my absolute pleasure. I cannot wait to dig in and get started.

Mary Killelea: Okay, so I absolutely love the work that you're doing. Our passions are so aligned. And I was reading over your background, and I would love it if you could tell everyone where you're from, kind of step back, highlight your studies, because I think that's unique and I really want to highlight your background. Let's start there.

Dr. Toni Collis: Absolutely. And I'm kind of glad to do that even though I get a whole lot of imposter syndrome, by the way, when you say that kind of thing to me. But one of the things I've learned in the work I do is that we should embrace our uniqueness. And for me, one of those things is my background. So yes, I'm a physicist by training. My first degree is in physics. I studied mathematical physics. Hey, between us ladies, I swapped from astrophysics to mathematical physics because I had a bit of reputation for breaking things in the lab. I love maths, though, so that was perfect. But I then started a PhD and I chose a computational physics PhD because I realized I really loved having my fingers on the keyboard. And it was during that I was doing actually this is one of the great things about science. I was modeling molecular systems, biological molecular systems, modeling things going on in the human body. It was kind of the precursor to molecular docking simulations that are used today to make medicines, good 15 years ago or more actually. But it was a precursor to that. So it was biology done with chemistry and physics on a supercomputer. How beautiful is that? That still just gives me chills even though I felt at the time like I didn't know what I was doing. Brought together all those sciences, but officially it was a physics PhD, but I was using supercomputers.

And that's where I sort of pivoted a little bit. I was offered the opportunity during my PhD to do a master's in supercomputing, high performance computing, interchangeable words there, and part-time. Now I would not recommend doing a master's part-time while sorting for a PhD to anybody. I did it and it's not pleasant, but I did do it. But honestly, just like the fact it's not a great idea in terms of workload, it put me on a path that I am so happy I went down because I realized what I really loved was enabling science through the use of supercomputers. The work I did for my PhD was interesting, but ultimately it was a lot of gathering data, writing small bits of code to interpret that data, and then plotting over 300 graphs in my dissertation and my thesis. I don't know what country you're in. And what I really loved doing was designing parallel algorithms, like having to think in parallel, just like let me up. So that's where I ended up. After my PhD, I took a job in the supercomputing industry and really honed in on what I think was my skill at the time, and actually still kind of my skill today, which is bridging gaps between people and organizations. So, I took the fact that I could talk to computer scientists, supercomputing experts, and I understood what it meant to be a scientist. And I was kind of that translator in the middle. And I think that is one of my key talents, actually. I think it's a key talent of being an executive. It's how I got all the way up there. And it just, yeah, put me on the road to where I am today.

Mary Killelea: I just think that's fascinating. Were either of your parents mathematical, or did that just come natural to you?

Dr. Toni Collis: Yes and no. So, both my parents are psychologists, which maybe explains why I love coaching so much. Even though for the longest time I applaud psychology, because growing up with two psychologists, especially my father was a child psychologist, and I was kind of like one of his backup subjects when his PhD students didn't have enough children to study. I get rolled in. It was kind of fun, but it just kind of leave a bit of a like, I'm not going to do that. But actually, my parents are both mathematically inclined. They just never studied it. I certainly thrived on maths. I have two older sisters, and I was the mathematical one. I still am. I could have done a mathematics degree, but I realized that I wanted to do something more applied, which is why I chose physics. Super glad I did. Yeah, and I still now, I'm very analytical. I like to think I'm rational, but the average human is not very rational, so I'm probably not.

Mary Killelea: Well, it's so fantastic to have women like you who are role models in STEM. So I applaud all your hard work and your dedication. What point in your career did you recognize that there was a lack of female representation in this industry and even having women's voices as part of the decision or research or product solutions, and what impact that had on businesses?

Dr. Toni Collis: I've been aware of the lack of female representation my whole life. My mom is an original feminist, shall we say, and she certainly, possibly intentionally, I don't know how intentional it was, but she certainly set me down this road. Both my sisters are very passionate about women and their domains as well, although I think I've got a little bit more extreme than they have maybe. Maybe if I've made a career out of it. But I was definitely aware all the way through La Cosa for a school in my school to study electronics. When I went to university, of course, one of only a few girls studying physics. In the Scottish education system, because I went to university in Edinburgh, although I grew up in England, I'm Scottish, but I grew up in England, went to University in Edinburgh. The Scottish system is a bit odd in that if you have an English education in school, if you do well enough, you can skip your first year of university education. I was like, well, all my friends from England are only doing three or degrees, and I'm not doing four or five years because I wanted to do masters. I skipped that first year of my education because I got good enough grades at school, I was lucky enough to do that. I was the only girl who did that. And it's very, very lonely, as we all know. So I've been aware of it the whole time.

And actually, one of the things I do remember is I don't know what age I was, but I was definitely a teenager. And I went on a girls in physics event to try and get more girls to do physics. And honestly, it turned me off completely from such activities. It was full of patronizing male undergraduate students who basically when I couldn't figure something out and I, in hindsight, I wasn't stupid. I felt stupid, but I wasn't stupid. I now have the ability to say that but honestly, I came out of that thinking I was stupid because I didn't know how to do something. I asked for help and they just said, read the instructions. And so it can thankfully, it didn't turn me off physics, it could very easily have turned me off physics. What it did turn me off was initiatives for girls in STEM. I was like, I don't want anything to do with them. So for the longest time, I was kind of aware of all this, went through my education. It wasn't until my PhD and I went to an event. I don't know if it was branded as a women in physics event or not, but I remember there was a woman on the stage. And I remember her saying, there are so many barriers to us as women that going for something such as, I think it was about getting awards as women in physics or grants as women in physics. And she said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with going for a grant or an award for as a woman in physics, because you know what, they're harder to get than the standard ones. And even if it wasn't harder, there are so many barriers facing us. If there's one tiny thing giving us a bit of a leg up, grab onto it.

And it just took me back for a moment to hear somebody talk about this movement in this way, all this work being done. And ultimately summing it up is life is really unfair to us. Up until that point, I hadn't heard people talking about how unfair it was. I'd heard people talking about how there weren't enough of us. And suddenly it's like all the things, all the pieces of the puzzle clicked. And I was like, yeah, okay, this is unfair. I remember cooking my way through my undergraduate cooking. What I did was I bribed my male peers to come around, like come around, I'll cook dinner and we'll study together. Right. I cooked my way through. That was my coping mechanism because otherwise you don't have that natural cohort of peers to learn with, which we all know is so important in the workplace. Right. And it was just gradually realizing all of this. And then ultimately sitting in a conference for supercomputing, plenary session on exascale at this point in my career, it was the next big thing. And out of 300 people, what, a hundred people, 300 people, I cannot remember now, I've got this written down somewhere. Three women in the room. One was me, one was my boss. He was chairing the session and on stage and one other woman. And I was like, what is going on? This is the most exciting thing happening in supercomputing field. Like this is just not acceptable. I was appalled.And so from there I went home and I started doing the research. I started reading about all the literature and realized, okay, this isn't just about women not wanting to do STEM. It's way more than that. It has an impact on everything we do. I'm really glad that today, 10 years later, we're talking about the impact on corporations. We're talking about the diversity dividend. 10 years ago, we weren't talking about that. It wasn't widely accepted. It was just a problem.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Dr. Toni Collis: And now we realize it's a problem for the entire human race because we need women at the table. So yeah.

Mary Killelea: Especially when you can speak in terms that, I don't want to say matter to people because it should always matter even 10 years ago. But what you've done is you've hit them in the pocketbook because of the business impact. Oh, I get it now. You know what I mean? Like, hello.

Dr. Toni Collis: It's very easy to have the best, and we all do this, right? We have the best of intentions like this is unfair. It's not nice, but it's going to cost me money. It's going to hurt me to do something about it. Climate change case in point, right? For the last 50 years, it's been expensive to deal with it. And suddenly we're dealing with, okay, maybe we have to. And I think that's also the shift that's happened with this is we can't afford not to. Businesses who don't care about equity, diversity, and inclusion will suffer. It's hard to tie the dots together still. And I think that's why there's still not as much movement as I would like to see. But ultimately, we know there's a correlation between women in the boardroom, women in management, actually the entire way down the tree and better business outcomes. So, if you want to thrive as a business, you need equity, diversity, and inclusion.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely. So at what point did you found women in HPC?

Dr. Toni Collis: There was a beautiful coming together of lots of different things at the same time in hindsight. And I had been working as an equality and diversity coordinator as like a 5% task in my day job for my institute. Because I just was like, okay, we need to do something, we need to improve the situation. It was bigger than just the supercomputing center I was working in. It was the whole of the school because I was working at university. I was having quite a big impact to the point that when I stepped down from that role, they turned it into a director role that only senior leaders could take on. I have a bit of a reputation for doing that kind of thing in hindsight. And I was talking with my boss, one of the directors for my institute, a woman, and she was she's always cared about the, well, rather always wanted to do something about the lack of women. And she was very supportive of what I was doing when I was talking about and at the same time, the organization was making a bid to host the next UK national supercomputer. And so one of the things that was added into the bid was a small amount of money to help pay for some work in this area. That all came through end of 2013. I hopped on a plane to the US for the annual supercomputing conference. It was the first time I'd ever gone to that conference and it's in Denver. And I remember my mind just being blown about the fact that nobody was talking about this. I was like, how can this community, this international, spans every single science because you've got physicists, chemists, engineers, biologists, you've got historians using supercomputing. And yet nobody is looking at diversity and the fact that most of this conference is white and male, what on earth is going on? And there was this little side event with women in HPC. And honestly, the thing that really upset me about it was it was set up with the best of intentions. The two women who set it up were amazing, but it was basically an hour for women to complain. And I walked out of there thinking, this is just not going to work. We're not going to change anything if we just sit in a room and complain to each other.

So I went home and I set up Women in HPC. And honestly, I thought it was going to be a little thing in the UK because it's what we got money for. I had a very small amount of my time for work. Within a year, we'd gone global because the international community was desperate for it. I'd come up with the right thing at the right time. I'm surprised nobody else did it. And it went from being something I had a tiny bit of time at work to do to me begging and stealing time and spending every moment of my free time doing it. And to the point that I stepped down last summer because I was like, OK, I need a bit of a break from this seriously hardcore movement. And I just snowballed. And honestly, it was simply because right time, right place and desperation from the community to do something about this.

Mary Killelea: And I've actually because I went to supercomputing a few years back with my job at Intel and that's where I met Kim there. And so, it's a great event. How can people get involved in it today if they want to learn more?

Dr. Toni Collis: If you want to find out more about women in HPC, go to womeninhpc.org. They always have and I think they always have. I'm no longer in charge. I can't speak for them anymore. But they pretty much always have an event at supercomputing. I know they've got a workshop this year at supercomputing, which is in St. Louis. I think I'm not going. It's really odd. It's the first time I haven't gone. Well, I didn't go last year for that Covid, right? So, yeah, they have events that I see in Germany every summer as well, I think. But go to women in HPC.org. Have a look at what's going on in their events page. And you can, I think you can still just sign up and join there as well.

Mary Killelea: Great. So let's talk a little bit about your career as an executive. What motivated you to become an executive and strive for that role? And what challenges did you face in that position?

Dr. Toni Collis: My motivations were probably, I think, fairly typical, but at the same time, not well thought through at the time. Until right near the end, I wasn't necessarily aiming for that role that I ended up in. I kind of knew I wanted to be in charge. My motivations really were around this. The fact that I wanted to impact decisions, I wanted to make decisions, I was sick and tired of being told what to do. Sick and tired of not having my voice heard. I worked with so many women that that is their biggest frustration. And a lot of what I now do is help them get heard. I didn't have that toolkit. So I thought that getting all the way up to senior level, whatever role that would be, I didn't realize executive was necessarily what I was after, was really about having that power because I could see a better way to do things. I think any of us feel that way, right? Very stubborn and very opinionated. And so, yeah, I kind of set out on the road of like, well, I want the next step. I realized I needed to leave the current company I was in. And I started chopping myself around, as it were. And I wasn't necessarily going for an executive role, but partly that's the way I showed up because that's what they created for me. And I will say they created, they were just super impressed by me and they created a role for me. And actually, the majority of senior leadership roles are created either to solve a specific problem or because they see a specific talent and they want to have that person. The best ones are when they solve a problem and bring in specific talent. But I didn't know that at the time. I was very naive.

In hindsight, was it the right move? It was the right move in the sense of it gave me more of what I wanted, more of what I did. But I think I got frustrated with it quite quickly in that I had more power, I had more decision-making impact, don’t get me wrong. I remember the first six months being so delighted that I was being paid a premium salary for my opinions. The thing that I'd been shut down for having in previous jobs and I was like, holy heck, they're paying me to be this opinionated. That is amazing. But very quickly, I realized that yes, I could have opinions, but I still wasn't being able to make the changes. I could see a better way of doing things. Ultimately, I left and set my own business, partly because I also realized my personal mission is to change the face of the board of technology and not just supercomputing, but technology. I don't see enough people tackling the senior leadership side of it. A lot of people are talking about girls in STEM, early career. I know that one of the biggest problems is retention and advancement of senior women. And so, I wanted to fulfill my personal mission. My own business allows me to do that.

I think if I'd known what I know now, I think I'd have given an executive role another go, because I think I've learned so much as a coach in terms of like actually how I could have done that even better and had that influence I was craving and find an executive role where I was a real partner in the executive team. And I think that was part of what I was missing, partly because I didn't know any better at the time. So, it was a challenge. I am absolutely delighted with where I've ended up. Do not regret it for a moment. But I can see other ways I might have gone down if I'd been better involved, but that's always true, right? We always have.

Mary Killelea: Oh, always. Yes, yes. But I think you hit on such a good point in identifying a gap, because you're right. The STEM is one end of the spectrum where you have to get them young, but you have to have impact on top leadership. Get them to see the value of diverse voices and not just put people in positions to be in positions but actually listen to them and implement their ideas.

Dr. Toni Collis: Yeah.

Mary Killelea: When you're helping women who are in, you know, seeking out these executive roles or in these executive roles and are feeling frustrated, what's one of the common things that you see and how do you help them through it, whether it is just not having the ability to influence? For our listeners, what are some kind of just high level advice or tips that you would give someone who would be seeking you for coaching around that topic?

Dr. Toni Collis: You know, really understanding how do I have an influence in a room that really says they want my opinion, but are they really going to act on it? How do I make that influence and have that impact? Oh, this is a tricky one because there's no one size fits all. What I would say is self-awareness. We have it harder than men. Let's just put that right out there on the table. And part of what I do is giving women the tools that, quite frankly, men don't need. And I think that's unfair. Having said that, I think one of the reasons why there is this diversity dividend is because women are held to a higher bar. And so when we do get there, we're extraordinary. And I'm going to be fascinated if I'm around long enough to see this kind of even out, I will be fascinated to see what happens. Do we still get that diversity dividend? People talk about it being more about because women are more naturally empathetic and all that. There's a whole nature-nurture debate, all that. I don't think anybody knows. And I think we need to stop pretending that we do know. But I do think one piece of the puzzle is we have that higher bar.

And so some of what I do is helping women get to that higher bar quickly, accelerating that. I mean, that covers all sorts of things. It is about being really self-aware. It is about understanding, okay, with that conversation that just happened, this is where the coaching really comes in and why I wish I'd got coaching in my career earlier. That conversation that just happened that really got me upset. That really bothered me. What are the other interpretations of that? How could I have done that differently? I would say 90% of the really powerful conversations I have with my clients are pointing out the different ways that that conversation could have gone, using that to their advantage for the next time. And that really accelerates your ability to influence the room, really accelerates your ability to get ahead and get your ideas heard. And when your ideas get heard, that's when the great things happen.

Ultimately, we're held back in our careers because of the explicit or implicit bias against us that means our ideas don't get taken up despite the fact that we have great ideas. To get ahead, you need your ideas heard. To do that, you need to figure out how to get heard. And so, if we can unpack all that, that's when your career is just going to accelerate and take off. And also when you can get there, the other thing is you're going to be extraordinary and I fully encourage you to vote with your feet. As women, we don't all have that privilege and I'm acutely aware of that. And I'm acutely aware of the imposter syndrome that stops us doing that. I think I stayed far too long in a couple of my jobs because of my imposter syndrome. But once you have that confidence, once you have that level of influence, if you're working for a company that isn't doing the right things, vote with your feet for the betterment of other women, aside from anything else, because those companies are only going to change when they realize they can't get away with behaving that way any longer.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. And I love the point of a coach helps with accelerating change and progress because that is so well put. Let's talk about your podcast, Leading Women in Tech. When did you start it? What do you talk about? Who's your audience? What would I learn if I tune in? I love podcasts, obviously.

Dr. Toni Collis: Oh, obviously, right? Me too. It's the best thing. Actually, from the first day of my business, I was like, I run a podcast, but it took me over a year to get there. My podcast is now a little over a year old. And so it's still new, once a week I've said, it's still relatively new. It's called Leading Women in Tech. And that is basically it does what it says on the tin, so to speak. I talk about everything it takes to be an exceptional leader, all the pieces of the puzzle to get you there, like from the toolkits, the leadership models, the executive presence, the understanding people always have a bit of a mindset moment at the end of every episode. But I also talk about all the pieces that are part of the unique challenges we have as women in the tech industry. So actually, a couple of weeks ago, I had a guest on who was a parenting coach, because you know what? I will talk about with my clients, I coach the whole of you. I don't just coach the professional you, right? You're a whole human. You don't just magically leave life at the office door or when you turn the computer on and you sit at your home office in the morning. And so I talk about all the pieces of the puzzle that really help us, either hold us back or help us in our careers as women. Bring on guests to talk about that too.

And one of my goals as well is to showcase inspirational women in tech, because I think all of us need more female role models. We need to see the variety of opportunities out there. I didn't know about the executive option for me until it was handed to me, because I hadn't seen a woman in such a role. I'd never met anybody like that. Well, I had met one woman like that, but she was, she had inherited her father's company. And so, I was like, well, how does this, how do women do the executive positions in the supercomputing industry? It doesn't happen. And I think part of what I really, really want to do is show women that anything is possible and there's no right or wrong either. Like there is, there is no one thing that you have to do. The only thing you have to do is be true to yourself. That's really what I want to do for women.

Mary Killelea: Oh my gosh. Our minds are so alike. I love it. I love it. And that's why I asked you to be on this show, because I find you inspiring. And I want to share that with my audience as well. So, okay, let's shift into kind of that rapid fire section. If you could tell your 20 year old self anything, what would it be?

Dr. Toni Collis: Oh, this is a tricky one. There's so many things, but here's what I think I ultimately needed to hear. There's a battle ahead of you, but that's okay. There is going to be ups, there's going to be downs, but you always get to pick yourself up again. You always get to dust yourself off and move forwards. And one day you'll wake up and realize you've done something extraordinary.

Mary Killelea: Love it. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Dr. Toni Collis: Always push forwards, get comfortable with being uncomfortable. Love it. And who has inspired you and why? This is tricky, but every single one of my clients, I would have gone for politicians or celebrities a few years ago, but there's nothing more amazing than seeing a woman figure out that she's amazing and blossoming and realize she's not going to take life lying down anymore.

Mary Killelea: Oh gosh. Name two books that you've read recently.

Dr. Toni Collis: I read a lot. Savvy Women in Five Minutes a Day by Maury Leathbridge. She was a guest on my podcast and she gave me a copy of that book and it's great. Savvy Women in Five Minutes a Day. And Fiction, The Maze Runner by James Dashner. Yes, it's the book behind the film.

Mary Killelea: Love it. Okay. Well, gosh, thank you so much for being on the show. How can someone learn more or connect with you, find out about your coaching?

Dr. Toni Collis: You can go to my website, tonycollis.com. There is a link on there to find out more about me, more about my coaching and links to my podcast or you can find me on LinkedIn. I'm at tonycollis on LinkedIn. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram and all the places which you can get from either my website or LinkedIn.

Mary Killelea: Thank you so much for being here, sharing your story and inspiring other women.

Dr. Toni Collis: It's been my absolute pleasure. Thank you for having me on the show. It's been a joy.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2BBolder.com. That's the number two, little b, bolder.com.