Career Growth Advice from Rebecca Gimeno, Talent Recruitment Leader | Career Tips for Women in Talent Recruitment

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 4
Featuring Rebecca Gimeno

Episode Title: #4 Career Podcast Featuring Rebecca Gimeno, a Successful College Recruiter for a Top Global Shoe Company : Women in Business

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Rebecca Gimeno



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. On To Be Bolder, you're going to hear inspiring stories of how successful women, some I know, some I just want to bring to you guys, and they're going to talk about their careers in business and tech, and they're going to tell us their stories about their passion and their journey and their challenges, and we're going to learn some of their advice along the way too. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Today's guest is Rebecca Gimeno. Rebecca is a friend and a very successful businesswoman. I met Rebecca a little over six years ago when she was running her own successful girls basketball training program. My daughter was big into basketball at the time, and her program provided not only foundational and advanced basketball development skills for young girls, but foundational to her program was confidence building, self-love, and emphasizing the importance of girls being supportive and encouraging of one another, and that always struck me as something incredible and unique to the way she was teaching sports, and so I was really grateful that she had that program. And since then, she's gone through the police academy and now is a successful collegiate recruiter for Global Sportswear Company. Welcome to the show, Rebecca.

Rebecca Gimeno (Guest): Thank you so much, Mary. It's a real honor to be here with you today.

Mary Killelea: Thanks. Okay, so I would love for you just to give an overview of the things that I touched on from your kind of career journey to this point, if you wouldn't mind.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, absolutely. So like you touched on, I played college basketball. It was really a way for me to love on other people, and basketball has just been like this really great platform for me to impact and have influence on other people, like you kind of talked about. Before I played college basketball, I actually stuck around a little bit and coached for college, and I'm a big do what you're passionate about sort of person, and so that was my kind of love, my first love and my first passion. So I did basketball for a little bit, and I was actually a recruiter at a college, so I would recruit high school kids to come into college, so looking at their applications and meeting with them, talking about career opportunities for them through their education in college. And then after, you know, I was a recruiter for college, I started my own basketball company, and I wanted to make it different. I wanted to make it unique, and I wanted to again give back to the community in a way that was different and impactful, and basketball and sports kind of connects everybody, and so I started my own basketball company, and at the heart of the basketball company was this idea of leadership, this idea of serving one another and making it more than just basketball, but teaching these things through the game. Absolutely loved that, did that for a couple of years, just full time, I kind of built up the program, and then I got a job at the global sportswear company for a little bit, just kind of doing odd and then jobs, I wanted to kind of figure out where my skill sets lie and what I might want to do in the future, maybe apart from basketball, while still obviously coaching on the side. So did that for a little while, and then really got a passion, you mentioned it, to become a police officer, so I was a police officer for a little bit as well, and thought that's what I wanted to do long term, went to the academy, was out in the streets, and did that for a little bit, and realized that I wasn't becoming who I wanted to become in that job, and there were some hindrances and some gates I had to hurdle that I just wasn't quite getting over, so I went back to this global sportswear company, where I am now a collegiate recruiter, so that's kind of my story I guess in a nutshell.

Mary Killelea: That's excellent, and I love the story because it shows one, you do stick true to following your passions, but you also respond in life by pivoting when it doesn't feel like you're on the right path, so I think that's a big thing that we need to encourage the younger generation to ensure that they do. What does a collegiate recruiter for a global sportswear company do?

Rebecca Gimeno: When I figure it out, I will let you know, my job is, it's very seasonal, and it's a lot, so it's not like a typical recruiter where you kind of have a pipeline, you stick to that pipeline, you don't really have any timelines, and you just kind of do your thing. My job is very seasonal, so in the fall I travel, I go out to different colleges and universities, I'm having coffee chats with candidates, it's a very fun job, I love it. And then during the rest of the year, and at the same time I'm doing interviews, and I'm meeting with my hiring managers, and I'm talking about what their projects are working on, and what capabilities they need in their business. And then I essentially go out and find it for our internship program, and we use that as a pipeline to bring in early level career talent as well as MBA candidates. And then I go kind of all through the process of interviewing them, setting them up with interviews with hiring managers, and then while they're here over the summer, I'm kind of their main point of contact to make sure their experience is great, and that they're trending towards potentially receiving a full-time offer at the end. And so I'm really, throughout their entire experience, all the way through when they're here over the summer, actually doing their job until when they leave. So that is, yeah, that's my job.

Mary Killelea: That's a very good model in that you're not just onboarding and then like off to the next, you know, you're really giving them the story through and grooming them.

Rebecca Gimeno: Absolutely, and that's definitely what's different between like a typical kind of recruiter that you care about, or a collegiate recruiter. So a collegiate recruiter it definitely encompasses the entire process. So it's fun for me. I like creating and maintaining relationships. I like trying to help people kind of get to that next level, whether it's, you know, at my company or in other companies. And so it's a perfect job for me right now.

Mary Killelea: And that kind of touches on my next thought is like, what are the good skills that you feel either you bring to the table or that important to have in your role? And then we'll talk about like some of the skills for people that you're looking for.

Rebecca Gimeno: Most of my job, if I'm being honest, is just staying organized. Organization is a huge part of my job in terms of, you know, where candidates are out in the pipeline or who I've talked to, where I talk to so many people that sometimes is just remembering conversations. And so that is a big part of it. Another part of it is obviously just being relational. I am relational by nature. If I could just, my job is perfect for me because I talk to people all day. And it's what I'm passionate about. It's what I like to do. I like to help figure, I like to help people figure out what they want to do or who they want to become. And I kind of, I'm using this job to kind of get them there. And so relationship is at the key of what I do. And we can talk a little bit about that too for kind of what I'm looking for in candidates as well. It's a question that I get asked a lot is what kind of person or what kind of candidates are you looking for and how do I become a great candidate?

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, that's wonderful. Let's go right into that. That's a perfect place to start.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah. So I get asked this a lot and I get hit up on LinkedIn because people see that I'm a collegiate recruiter. And so they want to know what they can do to kind of get ahead or get an interview or potentially an internship or a full time job. It's not rocket science. It's really not. It's simple. You have to be relational. I like to start out my phone calls in the first five minutes. And I just like talking about the weather. Can you hold a conversation? What did you do this last weekend? One, because I want to see in the interview your true authentic self. And so I don't want you to be nervous. And then two, because I want to know that you can hold a conversation.

Mary Killelea: Right. Not just one word answers.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah. Yeah. And so that's one thing that I'm definitely looking for. Another thing would be, are you confident in who you are? Not necessarily in your skills and abilities because that comes, but are you confident in who you are? Do you know your values? Can you clearly articulate your values to me in a way that makes sense that I clearly recognize that you want to work at my company because your core values correspond to my company's values. And so that's really important for me to be able to talk with somebody and have their values and their I think confidence comes from values. If you know who you are, if you know your values, if you know what you stand for, you're going to be confident whether you have the skills or not. And a lot of times on a job description, it may say these skills are required, but if you can clearly articulate to me that you are confident and that you might not have X, Y, and Z, but you're capable and willing to learn, then that's great. Like I'm willing to give you an opportunity at least to move on to maybe the next round or have you meet with somebody because you've articulated to me that you maybe, although don't have that direct skill, you have relatable skills and you're confident that you can do the job and that you're confident in your personhood. That was a long-winded answer, but I've done, I looked it up before we jumped on this call, but I've done 300 interviews between September and now. So, whether that was in person or phone calls or different events that I went to, I've done 300 interviews. Yeah, so it's a lot. It's a lot.

Mary Killelea: And that is a lot. So what's the most surprising to you in those 300 interviews?

Rebecca Gimeno: I think there's a lot that surprises me. You know, we can talk a little bit about generational stuff, but I grew up in a generation where we didn't talk on the phone a lot. We didn't text. We met face to face. And if we wanted to make plans, like you had to verbally tell somebody to their face, Hey, I want to meet you here at this time on Saturday. Like, let's do that. And so sometimes what's really surprising to me is the ability or the lack of ability of people to talk on the phone or to look, or when I'm even meeting them, like at a career conference or on their college campus, to look me in the face and to give me a strong handshake. Like some of those like little simple things go a long ways. I can tell within the first 10 seconds of meeting you in person, whether I'm going to want to continue to talk with you or if you might not be a good fit, I can tell probably within the first two minutes of a phone call, if you're going to be a good candidate. And if I essentially, if I like you, obviously, you know, resumes kind of get your foot in the door because I'm looking at so many resumes. But then once you're on the phone, it really is, do I like you?

Mary Killelea: Right. That's amazing. It is the basics are so, so important.

Rebecca Gimeno: So simple. And we forget about them or we're not teaching them. I think, you know, and we can talk a little bit about college classes too, but I think in college, we should be teaching people these things. We should be teaching college age candidates how to put their best foot forward in an interview, how to go in confident but not cocky and how to kind of nail those interviews and honestly how to write a resume.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, I totally agree. So a minute ago, you mentioned that a person should know their core values and be able to articulate that to you, or at least through their dialogue with you, it would just kind of resonate. So how important is it that candidates know and understand a company's values before like even choosing to apply to that company?

Rebecca Gimeno: Anybody can go online and look up some core values and it is good to know. You want to know taglines, you want to know major brand images, you want to do your homework. And when I talk with a candidate about our company's strategy and they have no clue what our company's strategy is and it's all over the internet, then that's a red flag for me. Now, and if I can carry on an in-depth conversation about our company's strategy with this candidate, I'm sold. And so that's a huge part of it. But then I would say the other part of it is really, I want to know that you have a story behind why you want to work at a certain place. So, what is it about our values? It's not good enough nowadays. The average, I would say the average candidate will talk about their company's values. A great candidate tells me a story why my company's values and how they intersect with their life and the work that they've already done without me even asking. So if I say, why do you want to work at my company? And they say, well, your mission is this and this and this. Okay, yeah, I know my mission is that. But you haven't answered the question. And so, I'm looking for that story, whatever you're passionate about. Tell me about how my company has intersected your personal life in a way that has been meaningful and impactful. And then I love when candidates at the end flat out tell me that they want to work at my company.

Mary Killelea: Yes, that's what I read before, just like asking for the job. It's like so many people leave interviews but haven't asked for what they came for.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, yep, absolutely. And, and it's okay to ask. I love candidates that ask for internships or ask for jobs, obviously, depending how their interview does and skill sets and some of the other things. But that goes a long way for me. If you ask for what you want in life, I think genuinely people want to help.

Mary Killelea: You and I have talked about the importance of having a strategy when it comes to being mindful of the classes you take in college. To the words that someone even puts on the resume, like really thinking through the presentation and the strategy and choices that you're making in life. Can you talk to me a little bit about that?

Rebecca Gimeno: Like I talked about, I was a recruiter at a college for a little bit. And then obviously my job now, I look at resumes all day, every day. And when you're in college and you don't have a lot of experience, your experience has to come through the classes that you take. And so go and take classes that you think you might be interested in, whether that's economics or marketing or, you know, biology, go in, kind of take those classes, try to take them early so that you can kind of hone in on what you really want to do. It is very important. This is one of the things that I wish I would have done when I was in college. I was a biology major. I only took biology classes. I only, I steered clear of all of the business classes. When I started my own company, a business class, what have I been really helpful, Mary?

Mary Killelea: I thought the same thing.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah. There's some like really good life stuff that happens on the business side of things. I do know that a lot of people will just go into business because it's the universal major. And I agree to that to a certain point. I really think that college is about finding your loves, finding the things that you're good at and you're not good at, just as importantly, and then really trying to diversify your experiences. One thing too, that I wish that I would have done is, Mary, I see resumes now that have two or three internships on them, or five or six part-time jobs or, you know, experience that pops up here and there. And I was an athlete in college. And so that was my main focus, but I wish that I would have even went up to a company that I would have wanted to work for and said, Hey, I just want to volunteer. I want to volunteer with a major sports club or professional athletes. And I just want to get the exposure and the experience. So I wish that I would have done that a little bit more and actually kind of dove in and followed my passions and see where they would have led earlier on in life.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, absolutely. And half the time, it's not knowing what you don't know. I mean, it's like, there's so many different roles within a company that when you're interning, you get exposed to. And I think that is really just, and even through volunteering, like you're suggesting, it's a great way to gain exposure into a company. Okay. You've got a pile of resumes on your desk. What can someone do to catch your eye and what do you look for in a resume?

Rebecca Gimeno: To start out with just the basics, the template has to be readable. So if you're applying for an artistic sort of design job or merchandise or something like that, your resume needs to be readable and it needs to be clearly articulated with your school name, with your name on top, then your school name or your school's name, if you have, if you're going for an MBA and then start with your experience and just run me through your experience from current until, you know, all the relevant experience you have probably over the past five, 10 years, depending on what role you're applying for. So there's nothing tricky about it. Just tell me in your resume, clearly what you have done. You would be so surprised, Mary, that I'll read a resume and I'll have no idea what they've done. Like, okay, so you worked here and you said that you did this, this and this, but what was your like day-to-day job? Like what, what projects did you work on? What did you work with Excel? What programs were you on? I want to know a lot of people fancify, I don't even know if that's a word, but they fancify their resume. And I don't want to know that you increased revenue 50% if I don't know what area of the market you're working in or, you know, anything else about your job. And so, it's a mix between giving me numbers that make sense, that show your accomplishments and your achievements, while also clearly telling me, you know, what it is you actually did.

Mary Killelea: What's the rule of thumb when it comes to one page or two page? Or does it matter?

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, it depends on the company. And I would say that most recruiters, one page is going to be industry standard. If it's, if it's two pages, it's too much. I also don't until we might get into if it's a full time rule, we might get into, if you have people that want to recommend you, then we may or may not reach out to those people that you have on your resume. But I just want to see your school, your name, all your contact information, and then your experience on your resume. One thing that I have really enjoyed is at the bottom of resume seeing extra interests. So whether it is hiking or baby Yoda, or cheese, you'd be surprised like what people put on the bottom of their resumes and other areas of interest. But it shows me also that you're human. So that's the section at the very bottom that you can spend a couple lines, kind of bringing out your personality and telling me who you are.

Mary Killelea: Here's a big question that some people think isn't important. But do you look at social media profiles as you consider a future employee?

Rebecca Gimeno: That's a good question. I look at LinkedIn profiles, and I can tell a lot by the people that you surround yourself with. So, I'll also look at connections. And then I'll look and see if there's anything on your LinkedIn profile that maybe you didn't put on your resume. If I'm applying for a design job, I don't know, we'll just say that if I'm applying for a design job, and I try to kind of fluff up my resume to make it seem like I have way more experience in design, and then I go onto your LinkedIn profile, and it just doesn't match up. And I've learned that you're coming from like the supply chain, and all of a sudden you just want to be a designer. That's a red flag for me. So not social media, not Facebook, or Instagram, or anything like that, but more of LinkedIn for sure.

Mary Killelea: This next thing I think is a big deal. And I think that no matter what age you are, or no matter where you are in your career, you should always be working on your personal brand and how you put yourself out there, whether it's by having, you know, your profiles on your various social media platforms current and up to date. And like you said very relevant to your interests and maybe the jobs that you're going for. But how do you see it, the value of personal brand and even choosing like the right photographer, or obviously not everyone can afford the right photographer, but quality. Like this literally is some people's first impression of you.

Rebecca Gimeno: We have iPhones now, so everybody is a professional photographer. There's no reason that you shouldn't clear photo of yourself with just a headshot on social media platforms like LinkedIn. So that's one thing that I would say. Also, when we're talking about personal brands, again, it goes back to the authenticity of knowing who you are, because if you don't know who you are, you're going to be all over the place. If you don't know your skill sets, if you don't know what you're good at, what you're not good at, you're going to be kind of all over the map trying to just shotgun out your resume to a lot of different places, hoping that something sticks. And you don't want to do that. You want to be really clear and well defined in who you are and what you're trying to go after. And if you still are trying to look for that, then that's fine. But it really helps if I can look at a person or I can have a conversation with somebody, and they can clearly articulate to me that they are interested in marketing, and they're interested in marketing because of X, Y, and Z. They have a clear direction. They know where they want to go and they know how to get there. That is, to me, really important. And so having a personal brand and knowing what you're about to clearly is just easier to clearly articulate to others. So you're absolutely right, Mary. It's important to have a clear brand when you are especially job hunting.

Mary Killelea: So this next question, we kind of touched on, but I want to ask it more in a direct formalized question. What kind of things do you expect a candidate to know about your company before their interview?

Rebecca Gimeno: I want them to know exactly what the job is in terms of qualifications and skill sets. So, the job description sometimes maybe is a little bit ambiguous. If you think that you'll be good at that job, go online and look up what other job descriptions of that specific title look like. Really figure out what it is you're applying to. And then, I mean, honestly, read the job description. You'd be surprised how many people just don't even read the job description. I'm like, you've got to be kidding me. So, I expect you to know, obviously, if you're asking, at the end, I always leave opportunities to create some further dialogue around questions that candidates have for me. If you're asking me too many questions about the job, I'm going to then assume that you don't know what you're doing. And so, there's a balance between asking questions and coming across as professional.

Mary Killelea: What you said just triggered something. So, when someone writes a cover letter to you, they should weave in portions of the job description too. So, it clearly shows you that they've demonstrated it and they've thought it through, correct?

Rebecca Gimeno: Yes, absolutely. And use the words from the job description directly in the resume. It makes it really easy for recruiters to go, oh, they're clearly qualified because they match the job description. Like it just, there's that little connect that happens when I'm looking for somebody uses Excel or has a consultant background or, and they need experience in brand management and digital and e-commerce. If I see brand digital e-commerce on a resume or in a cover letter, that's an automatic for me to pull out the resume and take a look at them.

Mary Killelea: Interesting. So, I'm sure it varies on the particular role that someone is interviewing for, but do you have common interview questions that every candidate can kind of expect?

Rebecca Gimeno: Yes or no. So, it does vary quite differently between different roles that I'm recruiting for. I have a lot of different areas of the business that I recruit for that are not at all related. And some of the questions do need to be a little bit more technical. Like if I'm in the analytics space, they need to absolutely know Tableau and SQL and some of those things. And then if I'm in the design space, they need to know certain things. So yes or no, I would say some of the common questions would be, tell me about yourself. Give me your elevator pitch. Can you clearly articulate to me who you are, the experience that you've had, and why I should hire you in five minutes? And so just having people run me through their resume is sometimes very hard for people. So I would say work on your elevator pitch, work on your story behind your experience. Then I would say why do you want to work at my company? I just flat out ask them. And if they give me a superficial answer or they haven't done their homework, I can immediately tell that. They have done their homework and we can actually create dialogue around, because it's really a conversation, right? I'm interviewing somebody, but I want to, I'm more than just interviewing you. I want to have a dialogue with you. I want to have discussions to really understand who you are and why you would be good for the role. So that's another one. And then tell me about an ambiguous situation or a time that you had to solve when you didn't have all of the necessary information that you needed or somebody came to you and asked you just this random thing and you're like, I have no idea how to solve for this. So, tell me about a time that you had to solve for something that was an ambiguous ask. And then also like, how do you have to deal or how do you deal in cross-functional teams? So, tell me about a time where you had to work on a project and it was across a bunch of different teams. How did you go about getting everybody on the same page? How did you go about prioritizing your agenda when everybody else has different agendas? How do you deal with difficult people? That can show a lot about people and how they either prioritize their priorities or handle the difficult people for sure.

Mary Killelea: Oh, I have certainly found that to be true with working in corporate America. I think being able to multitask, keep your cool and multitask, stay organized, and also having the cross-organization diplomacy of what I think is really important is to be a good listener and not think it's your way or the highway or feeling like someone can roll over you. Like, no, I have a point and I'm gonna present it to you and we're gonna work on this together. It's diplomacy, really.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, yeah, it really is. And honestly, like you talked about, it's just sometimes having a backbone and then sometimes knowing which you have to lose some fights to win the war and you gotta pick your battles. Right?

Mary Killelea: What advice would you give the next generation of women who are either in the workforce now or looking for a career change or someone just starting out and wanting to educate herself on opportunities and not knowing where to start? I think that's a biggie.

Rebecca Gimeno: Honestly, I get a lot of referrals at my job because the good candidates are reaching out to their network and activating their network and just talking to a lot of people about what they like about their jobs, what they don't like, what companies are good or where they might have worked out before. And a lot of it, Mary, is honestly people focused. We are not in the day and age where you can sit on the internet anymore and just apply to a hundred jobs and see what happens. We are definitely in the age where you need to be getting out. You need to be going to there's a woman's network I know that we have where entrepreneurs actually meet, and they just talk about their ideas. They network, they get to know one another, and then they see if they can help each other. Somebody in business might be starting a stock company or whatever, and they need a marketing person. They don't know anything about marketing. They go to this entrepreneur meeting and they just start networking. And pretty soon you found a marketer that may be willing to do some work for you for free until your business gets up online. And so it really is networking. Yeah, I think my major piece of advice is get out and network.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. Face to face, conversational.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah. Yes. Face to face, conversational. Also, I will just say this. Men are, if on a job description it says three to five years of experience and a man has maybe two years of experience, they're going to apply to the job. They're not going to let that one little hiccup kind of discourage them from applying. Whereas women sometimes being our honest, by the book selves, by the book. We go, oh, well, it says three to five years. I only have like two years and nine months of experience. So I probably couldn't apply. And so we actually don't take it, don't apply to jobs. That would be really great for us because of some of those little things. And so I would say, go out and get what you want, like go after it.

Mary Killelea: And you touched on it. And this was my next question was, do you find that men or women you interview struggle with self-confidence and like the ratio, I'm assuming that women struggle more with self-confidence. And I hope I'm not just generalizing, but in the interviews and discussions I've had, it seems to be obviously the trend. So any advice on overcoming confidence in an interview if you're a woman?

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, it's interesting. Confident people can take a little bullet point on their resume that says, I did a website and they'll turn that into, I did videography, I did photography. So, I'm a professional photographer because I took pictures from my website. I was a content creator and a social media marketer because I created an Instagram account for my website, my business. So, there's some people that will take, that will just say, I created a website and then there's other people that will tell me all about all of their other experiences that they had because they created that website. You're right in saying that that is a confidence thing to me. And when typically when I'll ask people to run me through their resumes, women tend to have a more difficult time really being confident about the experience that they have in a way that is clearly articulated and tells me a story. Whereas sometimes men will have a little bit more of that swagger. Whereas the woman may be way more qualified in her experience on her resume, but then is not able to articulate it. And then the guy just has so much swagger. I'm like, what in the world? And it's not always like that. I've definitely talked to some males that are not as confident or don't have as much experience to kind of latch onto and tell their story through. But it really kind of depends on honestly, it depends on the role. If I'm talking to somebody who's in your marketing area of the business or kind of one of those more social areas of the business, they tend to be pretty gregarious and can clearly articulate things. But if you're not having me talk to somebody that's going to be in analytics, they tend to be a little bit shyer. But I would say there's no reason to not be confident. I mean, really getting an interview with a hiring manager or getting to that next round of interview is really just letting me see that your skills match up somehow to the job and that I like you. Like it's really, it's not, like we talked about, it's really not rocket science.

Mary Killelea: And when it comes to negotiating the job offer, do you have any tips for the women out there listening?

Rebecca Gimeno: Negotiating job offers is, can be tricky. You definitely, definitely need to do your research online. Go online, look up what typically, what typical salaries might look like, and then be prepared. Come in with a…I was, when I'm talking to Canada, or when I'm talking to people about this, I don't talk to candidates about this, but when I'm talking to other people like friends and such, I have them write down what their top amount is, what their ideal amount is, and then what their bottom amount is and what their walk away offer is. So, if they offer me, and this is before you even start negotiations, because you need to know from your own research and your own experience, what your value is monetarily. And so, write those three numbers down and then write your walk away, like absolutely will not kind of take it if it's at the bottom of this range, and then ask questions when they offer you. What was the decision on landing there? If you could tell me, or if you think that you have more experience, talk about how much experience you have and how much value you think that brings monetarily into the company. It definitely needs to be more of a discussion rather than I'm only going to take this amount of money. You don't come across or look good when you say something like that, and so it's more of a discussion, but know your worth and go after it, Mary.

Mary Killelea: Right, that's so hard to do, but I mean not for everyone, but it is a hard thing to do when you haven't navigated those waters or you're are somewhat, gosh, I don't have a bunch of job experience or I don't fully understand my capabilities and what I bring to the table. So it comes back to having confidence and believing I'm hard working, I have these skills, I believe that I need to be there because I value the company, I understand what they're doing, and I can bring X, Y, and Z. It's not rocket science, but it is difficult at times for sure.

Rebecca Gimeno: It is difficult, and the last thing I would just say is that it's not all about the money. It's about, at my company, we look at job titles, yeah, but we also just talk about having different experiences across our company and how much value that brings in, regardless of where you end up, and so sometimes it's about will I be willing to take this job for this amount of money if it gets me the right experience that I'm looking for and if I'm going to love my job. I think the other big piece of advice that I'll just give for maybe some younger generations too is that money is not everything, and when we go to college and we start looking afterwards for jobs and we're comparing ourselves to who's getting what and right out of college people are getting 150 grand a year and they don't even know what to do with that amount of money. I'd say it's not, the journey is not about money. The journey is about learning and growing and getting relevant experience and loving life. You'll never get this time back. I've heard many stories of people getting a job, absolutely hating it, they're making a ton of money, but they hate it. They don't love getting up and going to work every day, so they end up quitting, getting a job that they love, and making half their salary.

Mary Killelea: I think my generation was more about I have to make a certain amount, I have to make my age, or I have to by this age I need to make X, Y, and Z, and that was the bar. Instead of really focusing on, okay, if I only make this, maybe I need to move to someplace where the housing's more affordable and I can have a balanced life and I can do outdoor fishing or whatever my hobbies are, but still do what I love. I think this generation's kind of smarter.

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, yeah.

Mary Killelea: Or shifting their priorities. How important is it to have an MBA these days?

Rebecca Gimeno: That's actually something I'm trying to navigate right now, so I obviously interview MBA candidates a lot, and doors definitely open up when you have an MBA or when you have continuing education. So, I would say if you enjoy your job and you want to try to get an MBA part-time, or maybe you want to quit fully and go do an MBA two years, whatever makes sense for you. I honestly am at the impasse right now where I can see where an MBA would be helpful and useful for me, but I love my job. I don't want to step away, so I think for right now it's not the right timing for me, but it is something obviously that has a lot of value in, depending on where you go. So, I would say go to an MBA school that has connections. Sorry, this is not your question, but go to an MBA school that has connections to potential jobs that you might want in the future, obviously. I mean it kind of goes off saying, but online MBAs are for me really, when I see them, I'm like, okay, yes, but I also don't know what sort of education you're getting or what an MBA online even looks like. There's a lot of ambiguity around it, but when I see that somebody has gone to a larger school that has a well-known program that doesn't have to be like one of the top 10 business schools in the country, but it's got to have some weight behind it. I want to kind of see that. So I would say that use your MBA. If you are going to get an MBA, you're going to go into more debt, use it wisely. And if you may not know what other job you're going to get or how that's going to help you, then don't go get it. You need to clearly articulate the skills that you want to get through your MBA before you go and apply and do all the work to get into an MBA and then go through it.

Mary Killelea: So undergrad, a lot of people say go take your undergrad at a state college or somewhere less expensive and then spend the money on the MBA college. Do you pay attention, and I'm sure it's again, which position, but does it matter if it's a state school or a top tier school or when you see those resumes? Do you weed people out based on what college they went to?

Rebecca Gimeno: No, no, absolutely not. I don't weed people out depending on what college they go to. I will say that there are some established programs at certain schools that give you or that require that you have an internship or require that you do X, Y, and Z. So there's some experience built into their programs, and so I would say that is helpful more than the name of the school. Also, one thing that I will say is that to go from your undergraduate right into your MBA is a bad idea because when you come out of your MBA, you don't have the relevant experience that people typically are looking for to then hire you into the job. So, it's a really hard fit to find you a spot because you're an MBA, so you might be expecting an MBA salary, but you don't have the number of years of experience, so we don't feel good offering you that sort of level. So, it just kind of muddies the water a little, but I would say go get three to five years of experience and then go get your MBA.

Mary Killelea: All right, well, all the tough questions I think I've gone through, so now it's the fun stuff.

Rebecca Gimeno: That was all fun, Mary.

Mary Killelea: Do you have any good book recommendations or podcasts career-wise that people should listen to or that you listen to?

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah, yeah. Have you heard of the Enneagram?

Mary Killelea: No.

Rebecca Gimeno: Okay, so the Enneagram is something that was turned on to me by a few friends, and it's essentially like a personality typing, but it's not like Myers-Briggs. It's not just, you fit into this one box, here's your profile, go live your life. It is a little bit more dynamic than that, so I'm actually reading, it's called The Road Back to You, an Enneagram Journey to Self-Discovery. It's by Suzanne Stable, and I think there's another guy too, Ian Crone or something maybe. Anyways, so this book talks about obviously the different types of personalities, but it gets more at how you operate in the world, how you operate in relationships, how you operate at work. When you're healthy, it describes to you what your emotional health or what your internal dialogue looks like, and when you're unhealthy, it talks to you about what that looks like. So, it's really more of a book to help you get to know yourself better. I remember reading about my type, I'm the romantic. But anyways, this book has just been really eye-opening for me to understand. There's some sentences in there that I'm like, oh my gosh, that is me to a T, and now I feel like I can just go be myself because I know that there's other people out there in this world that feel this way. So of course it would be a book that's somewhat emotional driven, and then there's a lot of really good podcasts about the Enneagram. I'm blanking on some of the names of them right now, but if you look up the Enneagram, it's a great tool to even understand your co-workers.

Mary Killelea: I'll definitely be looking that up. Oh gosh. Well, someone had Lisa, a gal I had interviewed earlier, told me about Chris Voss. He does negotiating. And so, I've been listening to him. I signed up for Masterclass. I don't know if you're familiar with that app, but Masterclass is incredible. They do Steve Martin for comedy, or they do Bobbi Brown for makeup. These are people who are very successful in their industry, and they give you these video series of just whatever topic they are. So, Chris talks about negotiating and labeling and mirroring. It's fascinating. And so anyways, I feel like I'm getting an MBA seriously every time I watch a new Masterclass. Definitely that's on my list. Where do you see, last question, where do you see yourself in five, 10 years?

Rebecca Gimeno: I see myself really just continuing to learn and grow at my current company. I, again, I love my job. I love the exposure that it gets me to different leadership and the career development. I'm actually, like we talked about a little bit, thinking and considering an MBA, I'm going to start small and I'm going to go actually to go take some project management classes and just learn something new. I think it's important to always kind of be learning and growing and things that, I don't know, I don't know if I'm going to be good at project management, but I want to go figure it out and I want to try and I think some of the skills can be used there. So yeah. And then, gosh, in the future, I'm just going to be living happily in Portland. I do want to get, I've had to stop coaching for a little while. And so, I do want to get back into that. Just my career has kind of taken front seat for a little while. So I want to get back into coaching, whether that's volunteering at a college or maybe doing some private lessons every now and then. Your girl's too old now. Well, I guess your youngest isn't, but.

Mary Killelea: Well, I know whatever you end up doing or always do is successful because of who you are and just your character and the fact that you do have that passion, pursue the passion as well as just are so true to yourself. And that's something I've always loved about you.

Rebecca Gimeno: Oh, thanks, Mary. You're welcome. I really appreciate that. That means a lot coming from you.

Mary Killelea: I just want to thank you so much for being on the show. Again, not only being on the show as a guest, but supporting it. Anyways, where can someone connect with you if they're interested in finding out more?

Rebecca Gimeno: Yeah. So LinkedIn, like we talked about, and then just reference the podcast and I will connect with you, and we can start a dialogue that way. I'm happy to chat with anybody and connect via email or whatnot. So if you just want to look up my profile, Rebecca, R-E-B-E-C-C-A, and then my last name Gemino, G-I-M-E-N-O, and obviously my title will be Collegiate Recruiter, and I will see you there on LinkedIn.

Mary Killelea: Awesome. Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guest. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number 2, little b, bolder.com.