Career Growth Advice from Vidyah Rammohan, Tech Product Manager Leader | Career Tips for Women in Tech Product Manager

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 40
Featuring Vidhya Rammohan, Senior Product Manager at Intel

Episode Title: #40 Career Podcast Featuring Vidhya Rammohan, Senior Product Manager at Intel - Women in Tech

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Vidhya Rammohan



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation.

Hello there. Thanks for tuning in. I'm joined today by Vidhya Rammohan. She is a senior product management leader driving product definition through launch on Intel Xeon products. She has experience across driving product requirements, product planning, skewing strategy, go-to-market and customer enabling for products providing cloud computing, high-performance computing, AI, and enterprise data center solutions. She is a design engineer leader with experience developing custom networking ASICs. She is an active leader in ROAR SC, which is a network of senior diverse new Intel employees sharing their experiences integrating into Intel. And when she is not working, she loves hiking, traveling, and keeps active by chasing her two boys. Vidhya, thank you for being here.

Vidhya Rammohan (Guest): Thank you for having me. I am super excited to join the session.

Mary Killelea: Okay, well, this is awesome because I haven't had anyone focused on product management before on the show, so there's a lot to learn here. Let's start by, can you share your story from your career, where you started, if you have the early jobs that you had, and then we'll talk about kind of your current role.

Vidhya Rammohan: Sounds great. So I sat a little bit in the, you know, from my educational background. I got my bachelor's degree in electrical engineering in India, and I got my master's degree in computer engineering at the University of Cincinnati here. So, my first job out of college was as a customer design engineer with LSI. I'm based out of Bay Area, and it's a very interesting role because the team, what they did was they did custom ASICs. They developed custom ASICs for other customers, big customers like Cisco, Bracket, and which was a great opportunity for me because even though I was focused on design, it allowed me to have these customer interaction and customer interfacing skills, which in the long term helps me even in my current role. And I stayed with the team for about seven to eight years, did a couple of different things in the team. It was a small team, so it gave me the opportunity to try my hands at different things, try design, try verification. Eventually, by the time I left, I was a design lead leading a huge project for Cisco. And at that point, I felt like I'd done this for a bit, and I wanted to see, A, wanted to work on products beyond networking. B, also the thing that I loved about my job then was the design part was great, but I loved the customer interfacing. So, I wanted to see more on the product side of the world and see other products beyond networking.

So I moved to Intel, took up a role as an application engineer with Intel Custom Foundry, which was a fantastic opportunity for me because it allowed me to interface with A, customers beyond networking, because we would, as Foundry, you just work with anybody who makes ASIC. B, so it gave me that, and because I wasn't as focused on just design and as an application engineer, I don't know if you've had an application engineer here in the podcast before, but an application engineer, your role essentially is to make sure you solve customer problems. So, it really helped, it allowed me to really use my customer interfacing skills, use their technical background by not being bogged down by design and such. So application engineer is a really cool job for anybody who likes interacting with people and still wants to be technical. So a pitch in there for application engineering. I did that for a little bit in Intel Custom Foundry. I led an ease of use effort where I was leading an effort where we were improving productivity for our custom foundry collaterals, methodologies, design, so that our customers could improve their design time.

And as somebody who had worked with external foundries, it gave me a very unique viewpoint because I knew the pain points our customers were talking about and I understood Intel's technology. So I had that perfect amalgamation of, I know what you are talking about, I know how this works, let's see if we can meet midway. Did that for three years. That was again great. And at this, around this time, I started getting interested in data center and just everything that goes in data center and I love that world. And I did want to move into product management as well. What I learned about myself was I like broader roles, which allows me to do several things at a time instead of going deep into one particular thing. And product management allowed me to do that. So I moved into my current role, which is a product manager for Xeon products.

Mary Killelea: What a great journey. And I love the fact that throughout it, you kind of discovered strengths of your own and kind of kept leading you towards something that made you happy and showcased your strengths. So let's talk about your role today and some of the responsibilities.

Vidhya Rammohan: So as I mentioned, my current role, I'm a product manager for Xeon products. And my responsibilities today, it starts from product definition, which is essentially taking requirements from our customers, competitive analysis, and just technology roadmap and building product requirements on this is what the product needs to be, building those requirements. Then taking the product through the planning process, which is essentially now that we built these requirements, working with engineering to see technical closure, can you go build that product? It's great that you want these features, but can we actually go build it? And in that specified timeline, because when you define the product requirements, one of your requirements is also when do you want your product to be released? You do not have infinite time. So there is a specific timeline. So, taking it through the planning process of, okay, can we go build this product through these requirements? And as you're getting that feedback, a lot of times you'll get feedback saying, we cannot do it in this time.

And then as a product manager, you're making that trade-off analysis. Is this feature worth holding my product for another quarter, or would I just drop this feature and deliver my product that one quarter? So you're making those trade-offs and you close planning. And when you close planning, you essentially have, it very clearly defines saying, this is my product. These are the features. The engineering team has clear plans of this is how we are going to go implement it. And you have a clear schedule of this is the timeline in which you will go launch your product. So I own that for my particular product. And once we close planning, then I own the skuing strategy, which is essentially how do I take my product and showcase it in different ways, different variations of the product and the go-to market for it. Now that you know you're building a product, how would you go to market with it? Which are the vendors that you need to enable, the ecosystem that you need to enable. And as working with your customers, making sure you are educating your customers on your product, the value that it brings, making sure you are continuing those customer touch points to make sure you're still building the product that they want. Because sometimes with, especially with hardware products, the life cycle, the product life cycle is long. It can be two to three years. So when you are defining the requirements, you're trying to predict something three years into the future, right? You're trying to predict this is what my customer will need three years into the future, which as you can imagine, it keeps changing. So you keep refining, changing, optimizing your product. So I own all of that for my Xeon product.

Mary Killelea: That's incredible. So I want to ask you what a typical day looks like, but I don't know if there is such a thing.

Vidhya Rammohan: I'm going to say it's a lot of meetings. I think some people might say, oh, that's anybody who works in Intel. Intel has a lot of meetings, but especially a product manager's role, because you're working with so many stakeholders. It's a lot of meetings, but the fun thing about a product manager's day is that your day can be made of varied meetings, right? So, I will start a meeting with a technical discussion about why a particular feature, what is the solution we are trying to build and having that discussion with the architects, bringing in the market viewpoint. My next meeting could be with finance, talking about revenue, the volumes. The third meeting could be with ecosystem, trying to make sure working with somebody who is enabling our ecosystem, trying to make sure I have the ecosystem enabled for my product. And I could end the day with something, working with an execution lead, talking about, okay, are we still on schedule? Or it could be a discussion with the customer where they are coming back saying, okay, you are doing this, but I need X or Y or I need more than what you're offering and trying to, again, having those discussions and trade-offs. So that's something I love about my job, which is that it gives me variety. I'm never bored.

Mary Killelea: That's awesome. So, obviously you work at Intel and it's a huge corporation. What are some of the pros to working at a big corporation? How have you navigated it? Because there's a lot to navigate.

Vidhya Rammohan: That is, there is. I will accept that. I will also start with being transparent, but I've only worked in medium or large companies. So I do not know enough about the startup world, but I love being part of Intel. I'll be honest that when I joined Intel, it was, I came from LSI, which is a medium-sized company. When I joined Intel, it was overwhelming because for the first time I felt like I was a drop in an ocean and trying to find your place in this huge organization is really hard. So that's one of, in fact, like one of the networks that I'm part of, RØDE, is all about helping new senior leaders who join Intel and helping them navigate the Intel culture, trying to share BKMs on how do you integrate into the culture? How do you deal with some of the things? Because when you join a company at a senior level, it's not just about doing your job. It's about influencing people. It's about building that network. It's about making sure things are done. And so which is why you definitely, I needed that support group and that group has been a lifesaver for me.

But coming to the point, right? Like the fact that Intel had something like that, which helped me survive my first year in Intel, I will honestly say I wouldn't have survived without that support system and that group. A company like Intel has a fantastic mentorship program. I found amazing mentors who helped me get to this stage in my career, who helped me make this, who guided me as I was trying to make a transition from being an engineer to a product manager. And the last thing that I want to pitch here is Intel has this program called DOT or they call it Gig now, which is essentially what they try to do is if somebody is going on a sabbatical or leave or maternity, whatever it is, they will open up an opportunity for those two or three months as a coverage. And anybody in Intel can apply to the job. And if they feel like your experience or your skill sets matches what they are looking for, you go and do the job. It could be a 50% thing, it could be a 100% thing. But as somebody who's wanting to explore something else with their career, this is a fantastic opportunity for you to A, go figure out if this is truly what you want to do. Sometimes you do a DOT and you realize, this is not what I want to do.

Mary Killelea: That's so great about that gig or DOT opportunity. You get to sample something and see if it fits or not.

Vidhya Rammohan: Exactly. B, if you find that you do like it, you build that network and that is how you're going to find your next job, which you want to transition into. And you built that resume and that experience for yourself, where you now show that you can quickly ramp into something. You've shown results in like two months, three months, whatever it is. So it shows anybody who is hiring somebody who's transitioning, they're taking a chance on you. This is a great data point for them, right? As you're making your case stronger for any hiring manager who's looking to hire. I'll be honest, I have not heard of any other company which has something like DOT. I have friends in the area, I talk to different people. I haven't heard something. As far as I'm concerned, it is one of the coolest things.

Mary Killelea: Sorry, you mentioned networking and I want to touch on that because I think some women struggle with not knowing what to say or oh, I couldn't ask them to spend time with me while I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do. What advice do you have for someone who's seeking out mentorship, but not really sure on how to go about it?

Vidhya Rammohan: I would suggest that A, be transparent, right? Do your homework, be transparent, do your homework. You may not know exactly what you want and you don't have to, but you need to have a high level idea of where you want to get to and that's all people are looking for. Honestly, I found people are really kind. They are very interested in helping somebody else and they want to help you if they can. People will make connections and just put yourself out there and I know it's easier said than done, but it's your career, right? You have to be your champion. Nobody else is going to take that first step for you. Once you take that first step, people are going to reach out and they are going to lift you up and they are going to pull you along, but that first step, it's got to be all you and making yourself vulnerable is hard. It's super hard and as I was making this transition, I can truly tell you, I spoke to about 70 people. I would just reach out to people and I'd say, I'm looking to make this transition. What advice do you have for me? And people gave me 30 minutes, 15 minutes and don't take more than 15 to 30 minutes. I would say that would be the one guidance, like be respectful of other people's time.

Mary Killelea: What is it about tech that you love so much?

Vidhya Rammohan: I love the fact that tech is all pervasive, right? Today, tech is changing the quality of people's life. It's made the world a smaller place. I mean, I grew up in a generation where we still use that rotary phone, right? And then to know that my kids today, when people just call and they're not on FaceTime, they're just like, I'm not going to talk. I'm only going to talk to them if we do video calls. My parents live in India. My kids still talk to them. It's not the same as physically meeting somebody, but it's pretty darn close, right? So, they see each other. That's the thing about tech. It truly can lift people's quality of life up. I mean, I love that. I'm tying it into my job a little bit.

Also, because I work on Xeon products, which is all about data center and data is everywhere. One of the things that truly excites me about the products that I work on is data is it starts from genomics, where you are literally running sequencing on genes, trying to find cures. You're trying to treat diseases to entertainment. And knowing that I work on a product which has such a broad impact and broad use case, it's pretty exciting.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's pretty amazing. It really is when you think about the reality of the end results of the innovations and the life-changing things that happened that are affected by technology. It's pretty amazing.

Vidhya Rammohan: It is. I mean, surgeons do remote surgery. Can you imagine something like this 10 years back? But here we are.

Mary Killelea: Well, I think that's important for women or everyone, really, when they think about their careers or their jobs, not to look at it as just, I'm a design engineer or I'm a marketer. It's like really find the purpose or the meaning behind why you wake up in the morning, even if you didn't initially understand it at the beginning, as you grow with the company, wherever you work to try to understand their impact, because that can help transcend how you feel about your job.

Vidhya Rammohan: Absolutely. I completely agree with you. And honestly, it's basically just looking out of your own small box and looking at where your small box sits. Your small box, actually any tech company or anywhere, you do have an impact on other people's lives. And I know different people have different motivations. One of the things I learned about myself is that the thing that motivates me is the impact, like the broader the impact, the more excited I am. So, find that thing that motivates you and try to put your job in that perspective. Honestly, makes a world of difference.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely. So, I want to talk about your career strategy, because some women have it, some just kind of their career progresses, and then they're not sure how they got there. There's no right, wrong. But when you think about career strategy, and you think about maybe some advice that you might share with our listeners, what thoughts or tips do you have when it comes to career strategy?

Vidhya Rammohan: Think about your career as a long term game, right? It isn't you don't have to get to where you want to go in the next step. I wanted to make a transition when I was a design engineer in LSI. I knew I wanted to move into the business side of things. It excited me. I was curious, I was reading books, I was trying to understand how products are defined, why did you put this feature in? But I also at that point, in talking to people, it seemed like people viewed me a certain way, because they viewed me as a design engineer. And they're like, you're super good at this. And we want more of you here. Right? So I looked at it as a multiple step. I said, I don't have to become a part, get into business tomorrow. So let me take the next step, where the next step was moving to application engineering, where I wasn't bogged down by just the design and the everyday details of it. I could really focus on the customers and trying to understand their pain points. Like, what are you designing to? What is that? Why are you doing this? So you can look at it as a multi hop journey. Right. And I think that honestly takes the pressure off of you. When you try to say, okay, I am, for example, I'm a design engineer, I want to get into finance. That just seems like it's an insane journey. Like, how do you make that transition? And then you get disheartened, because you feel like that's a really long path, or that's a really long jump, and I can't make that jump. But if you look at it as a multi hop thing, it isn't that out of the realm of reality, maybe you can take from a design engineer, maybe move to technical marketing, from technical marketing, maybe move to pricing, from pricing, maybe move to finance. And I'm not saying that is exactly the path, but keep building synergies, right? Building synergies along the way, and you can eventually get to where you want to be. So I think that's the one thing that I would ask people to think about. Like, think of it as a long game instead of a one step up.

The second thing is, this is advice that somebody shared with me, and it's become my mantra now. And everybody in Intel apparently does this. So people in Intel most likely change their roles, jobs, something every three years. And when I joined Intel, this was completely foreign to me. But somebody gave me this framework, they said, the first year should be about learning your job, because it takes you about a year to figure out what you're doing. The second year should be about excelling, right? You're hitting it out of the ballpark. By the third year, you've learned your role, you know what you're doing. Your third year should be about, okay, thinking what's next. And I'm not saying you have to follow the three year rule, but at least think about, are you still learning? Are you still growing? Have that three year checkpoint. I think that's a good framework.

Mary Killelea: Those are great, great pieces of advice. I love that. So, let's talk about the number of women in tech, because we know it's so low still, even though I know we're making progress, but then the pandemic hit and there's just, odds are kind of stacked up against. Anyway, how has it been for you to be the only woman in the room and feel confident to have the voice and to make the impact that you desire? What have you dealt with and how have you dealt with it?

Vidhya Rammohan: That's such a great question and it is much better today. I will accept that. When I joined, I still remember that one of my first meetings as a college grad went into this customer meeting and several people entered the room and I'm sitting, but I'm really uncomfortable, can't really point to the source of my discomfort and then suddenly as I'm leaving, I realized that I was the only female in this room of 40 people, which blew my mind that the statistics were that skewed. I hadn't noticed when I was going through schooling, like in my engineering, in my masters, but in that room that day, I just realized how skewed the tech industry can be. The advice that, and it took me a while to find my voice too, like if you enter a room and you realize all of us are always looking for similarities, you enter a room and you suddenly, I don't look like any of these people, I'm different. You treat yourself differently and everybody treats you differently too. It's both ways. Sometimes you think, oh, should I be saying this? These folks have been doing, they have a lot more experience than me or whatever and you hold back, but the reality is you are in the room because of a particular reason. You bring in skills and opinion and a viewpoint, which is important. You are in the room because you matter. You're in the room because you provide something that nobody else in that room can provide. So if you give up that opportunity to speak up, you are actually not serving your purpose. So every single time, if you have something to say, say it. And it can be small. It can be really small. It can be baby steps. Just make your mind up. Say every meeting, I have to ask one question.

Mary Killelea: That is such great advice.

Vidhya Rammohan: Baby steps, right? Next month can be two questions. No, you know what?

Mary Killelea: And just really simplifying it and knowing that your voice matters, that you're unique, that one little baby step, two little baby steps, and the next thing you know, you're running the meeting or you're just so much more comfortable.

Vidhya Rammohan: Yes, absolutely.

Mary Killelea: When you reflect on your career, what are you most proud of?

Vidhya Rammohan: I am actually really proud of making this transition, being a product manager now. It was a journey that came with this hiccups, right? Where a lot of times it just felt like, am I going to make it? Is this going to happen? Do I need to do an MBA? I tried multiple avenues, right? And it really took me out of my comfort zone because I had to go out there, meet people I didn't know and tell them, this is my life goal. This is where I want to get to. And this is my background. And, you know, do you know of any opportunities? Can you help me? So it was really out of my comfort zone, but I got here. I'm very happy with the role. I'm happy with what I do.

Mary Killelea: Who have been your role models or source of inspiration over the years?

Vidhya Rammohan: My personal role model is my grandma. So, my grandma grew up in a small village in British India. Her father was a teacher. So, she was one of the few women who had the opportunity to go to a school. She went to a Catholic school. So, she had the opportunity to learn English, unlike many of her peers who went to local schools. However, she had to stop her schooling when she was 14 because she got married. So, she didn't even finish her 10th grade. She got married when she was in 8th grade. And this was one of her biggest regrets. So as I was growing up, she would always tell me, like she would push me to take bigger opportunities. She would push me. She'd be like, you are so lucky. You have the opportunity to go to college. You have the opportunity to go do engineering. Choose, do something, build a career, make something out of yourself outside of raising a family, getting married. And all of these are important. But she kept pushing me in my life. So even today, whenever I get an opportunity or, and you're always thinking, right, every time you get an opportunity or somebody asks you something, you're like, is this the right time in my life? Are the logistics all working out fine? Is everything arranged in the perfect set up? And I have her voice in my head going, you have the opportunity I never got. So you better take it. So she is that voice in my head who pushes me to be a better version of myself.

Apart from that, I've had several inspirational role models in Intel. I have had great mentors. One of my mentors is Smitha Chakravorty, who is an IT in Intel. She was my mentor since I joined Intel. I have Lynn Olson. Again, both of these ladies have been my mentors, my guide, my sounding board, everything. And somebody like Smitha, if I'm having a hard time navigating a political situation, I could text her and say, I need to talk to you. She'd be like, okay, call me right now. She'll leave her meeting, she'll talk to me, she'll be like, you could think about doing this, you could think about doing that. She'll give me a couple of ideas. So she's been fantastic. Other than that XMG GM Lisa Spellman, she is an inspirational leader. She is truly authentic. And she is one of those leaders who lifts other women up. Every time I hear her speak, I get a new nugget of wisdom. Last time we were talking, she was talking about how women apologize a lot. And I realized, oh my God, yes, I do that. And she had some nifty tips on how to apologize less that I will be happy to report that I have been practicing it in my everyday life.

Mary Killelea: That's wonderful. And I know I used to answer the phone or I used to say something like, it's just me. And then I'm like, someone stopped me. I don't know, it might've been my mom who said, why is it just you? Don't apologize as though talking to you is not important. Drop the just. It's just those little things that we unconsciously do that you make those minor shifts and it can have a big impact.

Vidhya Rammohan: For you and for others. And I don't think like we realize we are sending off these signals. For example, a lot of times when you haven't gotten to an email, this was again, a tip that Lisa shared where you haven't responded to an email and you say, sorry for the delay in response. And she's like, you don't have to. You didn't ignore the email because you didn't want to respond to it. You didn't get to the email because you have 1,500 other emails on top of it. You can just say thanks for your patience. And I get a very fair point.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, absolutely. Have you ever experienced imposter syndrome?

Vidhya Rammohan: Every day. Being really transparent and true here, right? Where I think that's probably one of the biggest obstacles, right? That self doubt and that imposter syndrome kind of asking yourself, am I good enough? Am I doing well enough? And am I doing everything that I can be? And you are probably right. You are doing. But some of the things I've by one of my friends, she calls her, calls it like your inner critic is a mean person. Some of the things that your inner critic says, you would never ever say to another person. So why would you say that to yourself? So I have started. It's hard. I'll be honest. It's hard. And it's a journey. It takes a bit to get there and you need your support system. This is something I will wholeheartedly recommend for any women. Build your support system. Your gang of cheerleaders who cheer you on, who help lift you up in that moment of self-doubt. And you can be the same for them, egging them on, cheering them on in their journey, in their career, helping them build on their successes. Everybody needs it. Right? Anyways, the inner critic is my version of the whole do unto others as you would do to yourself. I have the reverse version for the inner critic, which is be unto yourself as you would to others.

Mary Killelea: I love that.

Vidhya Rammohan: So and we all need to tell ourselves that right. Like you would never tell somebody who took up a new role three days after they took up the role. How can you not know this? You're supposed to be leading this. You would never say that, but you will find yourself telling that to yourself every time you take up a new role.

Mary Killelea: I so appreciate you being transparent and vulnerable because here you've built your career and had such great successes and are in a very prominent role right now. But for other women to hear the reality of what might look and what all of us as individuals in our successful careers face is we struggle. We question our ability, even though we probably shouldn't because we're doing an awesome job in the roles that we have, and we have so much to offer and we're there for a reason. But just for some reason it happens. So I so appreciate you coming on and being transparent and sharing your advice. I think it's meaningful and I hope those that are listening are really taking it to heart. Looking back, what would you tell your 20 year old self?

Vidhya Rammohan: In all honesty, I would tell my 20 year old self to chill out, relax and take life a little less seriously. When you're 20, again, I was in engineering, I was so focused on getting my masters, doing my GRE, writing my essays and I just felt like everything I was doing, it matters, right? But I thought it mattered way more than it truly does. I somehow believe that everything that I did when I was 20 would affect my life at 40 and absolutely not true.

Mary Killelea: I can second that.

Vidhya Rammohan: Right, which it's always a hindsight is 20-20.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Vidhya Rammohan: And more importantly, don't be afraid to fail, right? Like, I mean, I was so afraid of failing. I was so afraid of doing something wrong and that is why I was so focused, so serious because I was like, I have to get everything right. And as you grow, you realize that you learn more from your failures than from your successes. So it's actually better for you to fail when you're younger, because the stakes are sometimes lower. Right. And again, you will have failure at every part of your career and it's part and parcel. It's sometimes demotivating. You learn from it. You dust your shoulders and you move on.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. Right.

Vidhya Rammohan: But it's better to fail when you are young because you learn those lessons early then.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. It helps build your perspective and wisdom. I mean, so, oh my gosh, it's been so fun talking to you. I have one last question. It's one I share with everyone. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Vidhya Rammohan: To me, it means going after things that you want, that you desire. Don't hold back. Don't worry about is the timing right? Is the logistics of it right? You want to take up an opportunity, grab it with both hands because opportunities come by rarely. Right. You cannot, a lot of us worry about is, are all the things in my personal life aligned? And then if everything is aligned, that's when I'm going to take up the opportunity. But that's all logistics. Right? So if you want something, go after it. Don't be afraid. You deserve it. You owe it to yourself to grab that opportunity. And if it doesn't work out, you would know that you tried and it didn't work out. You won't have regrets. That would be the worst thing that you regretted later that you didn't try something.

Mary Killelea: Oh my God. You have been so inspiring today. How can people connect with you? Because I know there's others out there that have been inspired. Who might want to connect with you or just follow you and see what you're up to because it's great to find women like you who really do genuinely want to help other women and share your stories for the benefit of other women. And that's what this podcast is all about. And I'm so grateful you came on.

Vidhya Rammohan: I am so grateful you had me on. This was fantastic. And when we first met, when you told me about this idea, I was amazed. So, thank you, first of all, for doing this podcast because I truly want women today to know the opportunities that are out there, the kind of roles that are out there. When I was looking for a job, I did not have such resources. And I had a very narrow viewpoint of the kind of roles that were available. And I just took the first thing I said, okay, it has to connect to my degree. But that is such a narrow way of looking. So, thank you for me and all the other women for running the podcast. People can definitely connect with me on LinkedIn. I am on LinkedIn. Please feel free to reach out to me and give my LinkedIn handle to you, Mary. You can add that to your podcast.

Mary Killelea: Fantastic. Well, enjoy your evening and thanks again.

Vidhya Rammohan: You too. Thank you so much. It was wonderful talking to you.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two, little b bolder.com.