Career Growth Advice from Ekaterina Walter, Marketing Leader | Career Tips for Women in Marketing

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 61
Featuring Ekaterina Walter

Episode Title: #61 Career Podcast Featuring Ekaterina Walter, a Globally Recognized Business and Marketing Innovator, International Speaker, and Author of Three Best Selling Books

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Ekaterina Walter



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Today we are joined by Ekaterina Walter. She is a globally recognized business and marketing innovator, international speaker, and author of three books, including the Wall Street Journal bestseller Think Like Zuck, The Power of Visual Storytelling, and her latest The Laws of Brand Storytelling. Her two decades of experience as a brand marketer and storyteller include a blended perspective of Fortune 500 startup and nonprofit environments. Her thought leadership has been featured on CNBC, ABC, CNN, Forbes, TechCrunch, Fast Company, and the Wall Street Journal, among many others. Wow. Your list of accomplishments is so impressive. I'm delighted you are here on the show with me today.

Ekaterina Walter (Guest): Well, thank you for having me, Mary. I look forward to the conversation. It should be fun.

Mary Killelea: Awesome. Okay, so first question. What drives you?

Ekaterina Walter: Oh, man. You know, I think personally, I have a lot of different passions and passion for learning. I love to travel. I love to read. I love to hang out with my family. But professionally, I think what drives me is just I think I'm one of the lucky ones who people love what they do. And so I love being a marketer. I love being someone who participated in a variety of different transformations, whether it's business transformation, whether it's digital transformations in my career. So that definitely did not make it boring. So I just, I love what I do. And I love living my life to the fullest, whether it's personally or professionally. So that's me.

Mary Killelea: Let's talk about success and maybe how you define it both personally and professionally.

Ekaterina Walter: Yeah. So let's start with professional because I think that one is easier to answer. You know, professionally, I think you've got to want it, right? I think without passion and interest in what you do, you're not going to go as far as you absolutely could. That potential in you will not be fully fulfilled. You've got to want it. And then, you have to be willing to constantly learn, constantly upscale, be mentored, mentor others, just create that environment of continuous education. You have to be confident, right? I wrote on LinkedIn recently about confidence. And in my view, confidence is a decision, not a state of being. I think a lot of people make a mistake thinking it is, but it is a learned behavior. We just need to stop self-rejecting and be willing to be brave, right?

Mary Killelea: Right.

Ekaterina Walter: And then, success, I don't know. I think you have to be willing to go into uncharted territory. You have to be willing to do what others won't or look in the future, no matter how scary that is, and predict where your industry, your company, your business, or your role is going. Find ways to do something new and unexpected. And then there is no success without your network. So, you have to network. You have to build your network internally and externally, tirelessly, every day, every day with a purpose. You have to build your network because that's where your net worth is going to be. And then beyond that, just add value, right? Add value. Find ways to add value to your business, to your company, to your boss, to your colleagues. And then when you become a leader, you have to be willing to learn soft leadership skills, which isn't natural for everybody. Leadership is hard work, and it requires learning. So, you know, I look at it professionally. These, I think, sort of broad the very necessary list of characteristics that I learn in my career that will help you define success.

And then personally, oh my gosh, I think personally, if I am to sum it up in a nutshell, Mary, I think personally, you just got to do what feels right for you in life. And life has so many phases, right? Your 20s are different from your 30s are different from your 40s, right? You might want to have kids, might not. You might want to have a big family, you might not, right? And you might choose to live in different places, or you might choose to stay put in one place. So, I think the secret to sort of being happy with your personal life is to look at both your personal and professional life and your goals as a whole, and not separate the two, and really live that integrated life and ask yourself what's important for you. And that's how I've made most of my decisions, right? I make decisions based on my values and my bucket list and what's important to me and my family. And I don't look back and regret it. I think that's another secret to being happy is no regrets. Make a decision with the information you're given at that particular moment and don't have any regrets. So, that would be my answer.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. So, you mentioned confidence. Why do you think, confidence being key, why do you think confidence is such a struggle for women? And how have you overcome confidence? Like, I mean, you're a global speaker. I'm sure the first time you spoke, you had to come overcome some internal, I don't know, hurdles or... Butterflies.

Ekaterina Walter: Yeah, that's what they are.

Mary Killelea: So, I mean, what advice do you have for women who maybe lack confidence or aren't quite sure how to develop it or... And how have you done it?

Ekaterina Walter: You know, us women, we got to look at men sometimes. And that's where you currently have more men in higher positions. Let's take CEOs, right? There is more men than women, unfortunately. But for us, we have to be willing to open our minds and learn. And I talked to so many CEOs and they will be the first one to tell you, confidence is a learned behavior, but it is critical to anyone's career success. And I've worked with CEOs who are, who have insecurities, who don't, they have different personalities, they have different paths. But one thing that really, that I noticed about their confidence is the differences in their ability to camouflage those insecurities versus letting them dominate their lives. And that's the choice they're making. And then, so they stop being your own opponents in life. They stop self-rejecting, right? To develop that professional confidence. And I think, I think for women, it might be harder just because of who we are, right? And what we have to jungle, I'm sorry, we have to jungle in this jungle, I guess you can combine the two, right? Because there's just so much going on with family and with your career. And just with, just, I think historically with sacrifices women have been making and the previous generation. I can look at my mom and my grandmother and that's kind of what you watch and that's what you learn.

So, but nowadays, I think we really need, if we want to stand on equal footing and really look at equality, we need to tell ourselves that insecurities are not going to help us and we need to work on knowing who we are, acknowledging what we can do because each and single one of us can do amazing things and we have a variety of experiences that are valuable. And just not shy away from pushing ourselves to showcase that confidence, right? I mean, I obviously, even now, gosh, a decade after I started speaking way over a decade, but I've spoken for years and I've been on so many stages and so many different sizes in front of different audiences. And every time I get on stage, I get butterflies and that is normal. That is natural. What I tell myself is you just get started. You just get started. You open your mouth and get started. And then what happens is the passion for what you do and what you know and that knowledge that they have in the back of your brain, it kicks in and then you just have fun, right? It's just overcoming that first step. So again, learn behavior and it's not easy in the beginning, but you can get to the point where you do stand up, you do speak up, you do engage more than less, right?

Mary Killelea: Great, great. So marketing is broad, and you seem to have done it all. I mean, there's branding, content, digital events, advocacy and influencer marketing, comms, the list goes on. Do you have a favorite?

Ekaterina Walter: Man, and I think that's an interesting question and it's really a pertinent one because I look back in my career and I tell myself, oh man, I picked something I like to do, but when I chose it, I had an inkling that that's something where I like to do, but it hasn't developed. I didn't go into my profession knowing that it's absolutely my passion and see that's okay to do, but marketing is fascinating because it has so many angles, right? And so I think picking a favorite is tough because I believe in any profession and everything you do, you've got to learn to be a jack of all trades because that's what opens your horizons. But if I have to pick my favorite favorite, I think it would be omnichannel storytelling, just positioning a brand and telling stories around the brand, culture, customers, partners, products, just that whole ecosystem of storytelling is just absolutely fascinating to me. And I think you can do storytelling no matter what area of marketing you're in.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely. At what point in your career did you feel like you had made it in your own eyes?

Ekaterina Walter: Gosh, that's a tough one because I feel like there's always something different to master in your life, right? And to learn. And again, looking back at my multiple decades in the industry, I will say that you go for different phases and each phase of your career is different. But I think it's important to celebrate the milestone. When I call it my bucket list items, right? In different stages of my life, I had different bucket lists and some items that took me 25 years to achieve, some it took me less. But you look at your bucket list items and you just have to have, right? Even if it's three items on the list and you have to reach for it, you have to reiterate, you have to set new goals once you achieve the other ones, you have to always strive for something. So, I don't know if there's one point, but I do know that it is important to celebrate the milestones and those items as you're checking them off your bucket list. And hopefully there's a lot more in store. Hopefully there's still those milestones to come. That's the way I look at it.

Mary Killelea: And I love that idea of celebrating the big and small wins, but especially those milestones. And I try to practice that not only in my profession, but also in just personal life as I raise my children. It's constantly, let's celebrate the big wins as well as the little wins. So, I think that's great philosophy.

Ekaterina Walter: That is huge, Mary. That is huge. Especially with your kids too, I noticed my daughter is still a teenager and I'm telling you that's it. I'm of the same mind as you are. You have to teach them how to celebrate those because it seems like a lot of people only do strive for something, but once they reach it, there is no that level of, hey, I got here. It's my accomplishment. No matter how small it is because those steps is what's going to build out towards your big goals. So that's important.

Mary Killelea: Yes. What has been your approach or philosophy to facing challenges related to your career?

Ekaterina Walter: Oh man. Challenges is one of those things that you say the word challenge or obstacle and people immediately think negative. The way I think about it is every time I come up against a challenge, especially the one I find I realized that it's maybe not up to me to fully impact or I couldn't have fully had a control impact over it. My philosophy is everything happens for a reason. If you accept it, you open yourself up to a possibility that every challenge presents an opportunity to push you towards something better. It's interesting. Some of the weirdest, heart wrenching career moves, not all that were up to me, that happened to me, immediately they feel like the world is coming to an end. I'm sure every single person who's listening to this experience that either professionally or personally, if you let it crush you, you will close your eyes on opportunities that are around you that you might not even have seen. But if you take the philosophy mentality of everything happens for a reason, I accept it. Let's see what is happening around you. Let me look around, talk to people. You will understand one, some of those challenges are very solvable. Two, if they're not solvable, it could take you additional solutions, could take you on a path you would have never taken that will be even better.

Mary Killelea: I totally agree. I love the thought of reframing the negative and just sitting back and opening up yourself to one door closes, one door opens. How have you been an advocate for yourself?

Ekaterina Walter: A good question, especially I find with female leaders. I honestly, what I tell, I just actually recently spoke on the topic. What I said is my number one biggest piece of advice is take your seat at the table, literally. Taking a seat at a table has so many angles you can think of. But I mean, literally, you walk into a room and instead of sitting in the corner, somewhere like, well, you know what, I'm probably one of the junior people here and so I have to leave that very nice available seat at the table next to a CEO or a group of senior leaders and I get to leave it for somebody else and I'm just going to tuck myself in the corner. Don't ever do that. Take the best seat available or be there early and take this seat at the lead of the table. I've done it many times throughout my career and when I was starting and I read it in a book, one of my favorite older books called Lions Don't Roar by Deborah Benton and I've never, um, and Lions Don't Nee to d Roar, I think the exact title is and that was years and years ago and I've never forgotten it. So taking that seat at the table, one, it'll give you confidence, two, it'll bring you into immediate conversation and three, it'll allow you to showcase what you can do or what you have done. So take that seat at the table, literally.

But also do not be afraid. I mean, you will not get advanced without being your own advocate. It doesn't mean to your own horn and constantly be in a limelight. It is share the knowledge and lessons you learned and the data and insights that could be valuable beyond your immediate team. When a CEO passes you by in a hallway and says, hello, how are you? Use that opportunity to say, great, let me tell you about something we just launched or something we just tried that is absolutely fascinating. That's the way to get to get noticed. That's the way to, by bringing value to people around you and sharing information beyond your direct circle, that's the way to advocate for yourself and your teams, actually.

Mary Killelea: That's such a good, actionable thing for the listeners to hear because I think so many of us have either assumed that we need, we're waiting for that invitation to the table.

Ekaterina Walter: Yes.

Mary Killelea: And we just can't wait.

Ekaterina Walter: Nope, nope. It's not coming. The invitation is not coming. You're going to take the bull by the horns and you have to jump in the fray and you have to be a part of those discussions, conversations, decisions, right?

Mary Killelea: Yeah. Well, let's talk about your career strategy. Have you taken an intentional approach to building and following a career strategy to get where you are today?

Ekaterina Walter: For the first dozen years I had, I actually, again, a couple of weeks ago, I did another LinkedIn post on that. And it is fascinating to me that I think a lot of people feel like they constantly, for the whole career, have to have a three to five year plan. First dozen years of my career, I consistently maintained a three year plan. I knew what I needed to do, skill sets I needed to learn, and what trajectory my career should take based on sort of looking forward, the skill sets I needed to have. But as my experience and my options grew, I started to ask myself, what would happen if I allowed myself a space to wander, right? And not have a plan. And it's fascinating what happened is I discovered opportunities I would have never considered in my plan. New pools of knowledge, new people, I've met new people, extraordinary people. There is a whole world out there that we would never discover. I think if we continue to stick to our comfort zone or to, I would call, finely tuned plan, which is supposed to take us on a particular journey, which usually is a straight journey, right? Sometimes that zigzagging and pausing, right? That's important too. Allows you to discover untapped possibilities. And honestly, your unutilized potential as well, right? You don't know it if you don't look around, right? It's not always a straight line. So I always tell people my career is a zigzag, and I absolutely love it because it continues to be fun.

Mary Killelea: So I love that philosophy of having eyes wide open. So, is that like the staple of advice that you would have for someone who's feeling overwhelmed or lost in their journey? Or what are some tips for maybe just someone not at the point where you were where you said, okay, I've gotten to this far in my career. Now I'm going to kind of just open myself up to new opportunities. What about the people who are listening that are kind of back in that, oh, I don't quite even know where to set my sights to?

Ekaterina Walter: Right. I think there's a couple of points, right? Look to your passion. Where do you feel happiest? And then in that area that you feel happiest, where could innovation happen? Right? I mean, gosh, everybody thought riding a bicycle goes only one way until somebody came along and beat everybody's records by actually laying on top of the bike seat versus sitting on a bicycle and bicycling, especially when they're going downhill, right? And just totally beating the records. And that's what we feel. We feel like, oh, there's no more innovation to be had. So, I think form a plan. If you don't know how to form a plan, talk to others around you, smartest people, people that you most admire, people who have done it, call them, call them up, call them out, take them out to lunch, have the conversation internally and externally. It's very important, right? That people in the industry, outside your industry, there are some insights that you will never get because you're so close to it or others are so close to it but extend your network and talk to people. If you're lost to where you need to go, have conversations. What you will find is your plan will form all by itself as you're talking to folks because you're going to be responding, they're going to be asking you questions. And suddenly you wake up and you go, oh, I know where I should go. And then from there, continue to explore where you think the industry would be going or where your role could be going to continue to be innovative, right?

So, a decade ago, social media was a, especially social media for business was a fad. I took a risk on a role that was five months, temporary role. And people said, are you crazy? Why would you do that? But I knew that there is just so much more to what this could be for a business, right? And so seeing those things, it doesn't require you to be extremely smart or a future or a fortune teller. You don't have to be a fortune teller. You just need to pay attention and give it a thought. We're so busy with our day-to-day lives. Sometimes we don't sit down and think about what am I passionate about? What other skills should I acquire? Who could I talk to? Where can I get advice? What should I read? Who do I learn from? Right. And those questions are the ones that will help you get yourself ahead.

Mary Killelea: I'm going to switch topics a bit because I want to talk about your books. You've authored three books. Let's talk about those. How did they come about?

Ekaterina Walter: I always wanted to write a book and I didn't know that it's going to happen or not, but I love writing. And so my bucket list item was crazy back then. I was writing a book before I turned 35. And lo and behold, I did it. It's just through my network. I've known some folks and helped some folks in the publishing industry, and they took a notice that I am one of the first folks to get involved in digital and social and transformation and marketing done in a totally different way from the old traditional ways of doing it. And so, they asked me whether they would be interested to write a book. And then the same outfit McGryne Hill, same publisher published two more of my books as I started to do more talk more about storytelling. Right. So they published two other books. And interestingly enough, it's just mostly because I like to write. And what I do is I don't just write about random stuff. I write about things I do on a daily basis in my job or my jobs. And I share those tips. I might use a variety of different examples across the industries, across the globe, but the things that I learned, those are the I write and talk about things I have experienced. And I can talk very knowledgeably about. So books did pretty good, but that's how I got into it. There's probably a fourth one, at least four business book is coming. I just don't yet know what it is. I have multiple ideas on that front.

Mary Killelea: So I love that. So are your books like your kids in the sense that you take pride in each one and you try to treat them all equal, but you might have a favorite?

Ekaterina Walter: Oh, my gosh. They're definitely your kids. I cannot tell you how much work they take. And it's there's just so there's so much work that goes and goes into birthing a book. And but it's a lot of fun. I mean, that feeling when you open the box and you're for the first time, you actually can hold the book that's been printed and published in your hands or you open a parcel and there's international translation of your book that you can add to your library. You're like, oh, you're like a little kid. But I don't have a favorite just because I love them all equally because the reason the reason why I wrote them is the reason is because I basically wanted to share specific knowledge, specific lessons with the world. And I think all the lessons that I share in my books are equally important. They're just maybe more or less important to specific audience. But I love I love them all equally, except it was probably a lot more fun to work on the children's book than my business book.

Mary Killelea: I want to get to that. I just want you to know I've downloaded both the power of visual storytelling and the laws of brand storytelling, brand storytelling, and I'm enjoying both thoroughly. So yeah, no, it's great. And I'm going to get the think like Zuck soon. Let's talk about that. You wrote a book with your daughter. What was that like?

Ekaterina Walter: It was hilarious. It was fun. It was challenging. It was exhilarating. You know, it's one of those things that my daughter and I made up stories together for a while. And then when she turned eight, she goes, Mom, you know, you're right. All those other books, what happened there? Why can't you write the book about the story? The stories we make up and we'd go camping and we'd make up stories about the sisters who were totally different. And so, you know, and their adventures. And so we decided to put one together. And I think for me, it was more of giving her an experience of one author in a book at such young age to helping her understand what it goes into it. I mean, she was with me. My daughter was with me every step of the way when we decided to engage the creative person who did all of the drawings for the book, right, where she was there when we talked budget, right? It was, et cetera, et cetera. It was all it was a whole project that I think she learned a lot from. And obviously, I learned a lot because this was a self published book. And so and then she actually got to speak on stage with me about sort of work life balance and be interviewed about it from her perspective. And then she got to sign the books as an author and she got to experience the whole journey of authoring, publishing the book and then signing it for folks. So it was a lot of fun.

Mary Killelea: What a tremendous gift to give to her and what a priceless experience for her to have. That is really, really cool. When you reflect on your career, what are you most proud of?

Ekaterina Walter: I think it's the people. It's my network. It's the people I met, people I mentored, people I learned from, people who stuck with me or people who were there for a short period of time and taught me valuable lessons and then left. Right. I mean, it's I think I think your network and people around is the most important thing because you can be successful alone. Success is a team sport. It's not about product launches and brand redesigns. Those come and go. Right. But your network stays in your network is your net worth.

Mary Killelea: What does to be bolder mean to you?

Ekaterina Walter: I think a variety of different things. So let me just let me just kind of list them. OK, I think to be bolder means you do you. Right. You stay crazy, passionate, weird, unique, different. Don't apologize for it. Speak up and don't shy away from visibility. Create it if necessary. But yet, yet you stay humble. Admit you don't know everything. Learn from others and honestly from universe around you. There's just so much to learn. It means you're not afraid to push the envelope, try new things, test and learn. And if you don't have professional environment conducive to that, you are not afraid to change the environment. Right. And I think to be bolder means you treat others with respect, and you demand the same in return and you don't compromise on that. It means you stick to your principles, be firm on that. Yet, yet you stay flexible and agile with everything else, adjusting to any changes as necessary. Right? That's a very important quality to have. And I think it just means you pursue your passions and your dreams with unapologetic vigor and vivaciousness. That's what it means.

Mary Killelea: That's fantastic. What's next for you?

Ekaterina Walter: Oh, my gosh. Continue learning, unlearning, relearning. Always. The journey is the fun part. The rewards will come naturally if you love what you do. And if you're constantly growing as a person, as a professional, as a leader, that's what's next is continue to learn and learn new things, apply new things and continue to strive for excellence.

Mary Killelea: I want to sneak in one more question before I let you go. So if you know how with digital transformation and even businesses and the world seems to be changing so fast and AI and all that, where do you see the future of marketing going? And what could people who are trying to look at areas of maybe they want to get kind of ahead of the curve or look at a different particular area, maybe to hone their skills early and kind of be set themselves up for being in the right place? Any tips on where you think is it AI and marketing? Is it a shift in how the storytelling is done? Any thoughts?

Ekaterina Walter: I think marketing has changed a lot. And right now, it's not about marketing. It's about some marketing, right? It's sales and marketing. Marketing is now more and more responsible for P&Ls, for revenue, not just here's your number of leads, do it at whatever you want to. It's how do I use the data and insights across the customer experience and my prospect experience to really connect the dots. Marketing needs to work closer with sales, with IT, with a variety of product, with a variety of functions to be more and more successful. It needs to be more ingrained into the fabric of the company rather than be a standalone and just be responsible for the top of the funnel, right? So that's where it is now. And I think for the future, there are a set of skill sets as I talk to CMOs and CEOs that we always agree on. And this has been the same for the past decade is data insights, analytics, MarTech being knowledgeable in technology and digital transformation and really knowing how to apply. All of that is really important for folks, those skill sets to master as folks enter the marketing workforce.

But I think if you look in the future, it's not about the tech. It's not about the formats. It's not about the channels. Those come and go, they get better or they disappear, whatever. I think the true thing that you got to keep your eyes on is how can I be an Intrepreneur, right? Intrepreneur, it's having an entrepreneurial mindset within the company. How can I connect the dots, see the bigger picture strategically? And that requires a variety of different experiences that need to be accumulated with purpose over a certain period of time, right? But not being afraid to be an intrepreneur, it doesn't matter what technology will take over and what number of jobs you're going to have. You will stand out and you will have a place in a successful career if you learn how to be an intrepreneur, if you learn how to be flexible, agile, being willing to test and learn. Always ask why and why not. Literally ask it. And sometimes in the same sentence three times, right? And if you can develop that mentality and that approach to anything you do, no matter whether you're marketing or anywhere else, that's where you're going to be successful independent of what comes in the next 10, 20 years.

Mary Killelea: I have thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I so appreciate you agreeing to share your wisdom and support women in tech and women in business and women in marketing. Thank you for being on the show. How can someone get in contact with you?

Ekaterina Walter: Thank you for having me, Mary. It's been a fun conversation. I am available. EkaterinaWalter.com, my website has everything about me. You can connect with me on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook. It's the channel of choice. And if you connect with me and want to engage in conversation, I always do. So I'm open to questions and connections.

Mary Killelea: Wonderful. Thank you so much.

Ekaterina Walter: Thank you.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bboulder.com. That's the number two, little b bolder.com.