Career Growth Advice from Danielle Farage, Tech Start Up Leader | Career Tips for Women in Tech Start Up

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 68
Featuring Danielle Farage

Episode Title: #68 Career Podcast Featuring LinkedIn Top Voice, Danielle Farage on identity, culture, and education.

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Danielle Farage



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Thanks for tuning in. Today's guest is unlike any other I've had on the show. Danielle Farage is a work futurist and community builder. LinkedIn featured her as one of the top voices of Gen Z. Her work, writings and speaking engagements cover the intersection of identity, culture and education. She is CAFE's director of growth and marketing and believes in standard and future where everyone is fulfilled, engaged and always growing at work and beyond. Danielle, great to have you on the show.

Danielle Farage (Guest): I'm very excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Mary Killelea: Okay, so I came across you and found you after LinkedIn named you one of the top voices of the next generation. How has that article or that classification changed your life?

Danielle Farage: Yeah, it was an exciting thing to happen to me. I honestly, everything kind of happens, right? You have these like big wins and small wins and things. And I think that when that happened, it felt really, really big. And like I had gotten to this level. And then I kind of stepped back and thought to myself, okay, like, this is like a great accomplishment. I want my goals to be even farther. So, I think it kind of just motivated me to, I guess, continue growing and learning. And to also because I had been honored in this way, I think to step up and really get a little bit more serious about my content, about like the direction that I'm going and basically, how can I help as many people as possible in more of a strategic way? So I guess since then, I've just thought a little bit different about my content. And I don't know about if like serious is the right word. But I think I've just tried to stay as authentic to my brand as possible.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, I think that's great. And I think the sky's the limit for how you take on this conversation. And I've read your newsletter and find it very fascinating. Tell us about your role as director of growth and marketing at Cafe.

Danielle Farage: Yeah. So I actually I work at this really small startup called Cafe. And sometimes people are really surprised that we're only a few people, because we have such a big impact. And that's a great thing. That's what every startup wants to hear. So basically, the way that I landed this job in the first place was that I was working in HR tech in 2021. And the company that I was working for was being acquired. So, I decided based on a lot of different elements, and where I wanted to go, that I wanted to look for something else. And I'm constantly learning, networking, deepening and furthering my relationships with people. So when the opportunity kind of came to like meet this founder who was building this awesome software that I thought was going to change the world and how we interact at work and beyond, I was sort of like, OK, why not? Right. That's kind of my favorite phrase these days. Why not?

So I met with him. And almost immediately, I just got this impression that like, the software that they were building was people first. It was product-led growth, which is exactly what I wanted to be doing next. And it was more on the retention or employee experience side. So how do we make the experience of work better for people? And not just HR people, but like everyone in the organization. And so essentially, I, about a week after meeting with the founder and like really hitting it off, they sent me an offer for a job. And it was actually not a director position at all. It was more like product, like product manager, I think it was. And it occurred to me that they weren't exactly sure about what they wanted that person to be doing, but they knew that they wanted a presence in the States. And when that happened, I was also negotiating my offer in the current role that I was at, at the new company, right? So after the acquisition. So I had two offers on the same day. Then I had to sign one. And long story short, I ended up signing with the existing company because I was sort of like getting my stock options and all that. And then three weeks later, I actually signed a new deal and a new contract with Cafe.

And what happened was like, I saw this opportunity to join a YC backed company, which at the time I actually didn't know it was Y Combinator backed when I signed it, but they told me after, but I saw this opportunity to work for a company that was really changing the way that we interact. And I wanted to play a part in that. I wanted to help this software really come to the States in a strong way and completely transform and create a better employee experience. This software would change my life for sure. And as well as anyone else's. So essentially what happened was I asked them if I'm going to join, I want to have a title that reflects the impact that I'm going to make at the company. And when they said that they, when I said that they knew that I was really serious, I wasn't just playing around. And they said you can create whatever, whatever sort of title you want. And at the time I was really focused on my marketing career. And, and now my role has kind of changed throughout the year because as you know, someone at an early stage startup in marketing and growth, you wear a lot of different hats. So now that we're hiring for some positions, now my role is going to shape and be a little bit different. And I'm honestly very excited about the sort of the trajectory of where I will be in a few months. And I'll be announcing that shortly, but yeah, I would say I've just kind of stayed flexible and open to change. And that's really, really been helpful.

Mary Killelea: There's so many questions off of that one question, that answer that I so would ask. So adaptability, huge, everyone needs to have that, especially as in a tech field. Any advice, because you said you negotiated not only salary, but titles, what type of learnings did you take away from that experience that you could share for some of the listeners about just negotiating?

Danielle Farage: I think it was a really big learning experience. I think it forced me to and part of that story, I kind of left out, which I'll delve into a little bit was, I was really conflicted. Like, this wasn't an easy time period in my life at all. This this month that was happening, that was it was so stressful. And I was like, I don't know what I want. And I actually reached out to this woman who I met through Clubhouse. Her name is Dr. Jill. And she runs these amazing rooms, audio rooms, all about sort of morning mindset and intention setting and just really intuitive things. And I had met her and we'd spoken a little bit, and I reached out to her sort of in in confidence saying, Hey, Dr. Jill, like I even had a therapist at the time who I could have reached out to, but I chose her. And, and I said, I don't know what I want. I'm faced with these two amazing opportunities in front of me. And I honestly don't know what I want. And she kind of helped me, along with some of my other mentors like Isabel Kent, who works at Philly startup leaders, and a couple other people who basically helped me realize that if not now when? And if I don't take the opportunity to do something different and work for a European startup, like out of the US market is not the only one, right? So if I don't experience and explore, then how will I ever know what I really want or am meant to be doing? And I think that was sort of the learning that I took away was asking yourself why not is often a really great strategy to figuring out what you really do want. Just kind of opening yourself up to the possible makes so much more possible that you thought was impossible. You know what I mean? So that's Yeah, I think that's like definitely a huge lesson that I learned.

Mary Killelea: That's fantastic. And so I read that you don't let age define you. What do you mean by that?

Danielle Farage: Yeah. So, so it's funny, like, I've had this conversation with my mom a lot. And I'm sure you have this conversation, too. I think it's a constant thing where, like, as you get older, you feel less relevant, especially with technology. And like, you just feel like you have you know, less than you know how to do like fewer things, when realistically what you know is just different from what other people know. And your experience is different from another person, right? So when I was coming into the workplace, I had this conversation with my mother at the front of my mind of she's a boomer, she's in her 60s. And she looks incredible. She doesn't look like she's in her 60s. But she is sort of entering into this transitionary period in her career as well. And is feeling like, oh, my gosh, what am I going to do with my life? Like, what's next for me? And to see, you know, my role model, sort of question herself, was a huge, like, wow, kind of this realization that everyone has insecurities. And it brought me closer to her for sure. But it also brought up this question of like, well, if we're thinking that, like, the older you get, the less relevant you are. And like, the younger you are, the less knowledge you have and experience and all these things. We start questioning, right? And like, like asking people, oh, what do you know? Realistically, everyone comes to the table with their own story. And with a unique perspective that is that is valuable and important to the overall conversation, especially if we're talking about diversity. In all ways, right? So, I think what I mean by I don't want age to define me is that, yeah, sure, I'm 24. And I'm proud to be 24. And I think what's unique about me, and as well as anyone else who's 24, is the way that we grew up is riddled, unfortunately, with a lot of evil and shootings and the toxicity of social media.

But on the flip side, the way that we grew up was extremely connected to each other, whether it was through, you know, in person, as well as digitally, we grew communities online, and really, I think, leaned into it more during the pandemic. And we had like, we knew how to, we knew how to adapt. And I think that adaptability really has been helpful. And even I'm seeing, you know, like, the reverse mentorship happen in the workplace and sort of behind closed doors, even within my own family with me to my mother, right, I think full circle, right? It's kind of like, we all have this unique perspective and experience that I think we sort of instead of questioning it, or questioning someone's credibility because of their age, maybe we invite them in and give them a seat at the table to say, well, what do you think? And I think that's the most valuable thing we can do.

Mary Killelea: I 100% agree with you. And I'm 54 or 55. And proud of that, too. But I do see tension or feelings of ageism and fear that younger generation is taking over jobs or not enough older people asking for insight and creativity and thoughts and opinions from younger people. So how do you encourage people in work environments to foster the better relationships and get more out of it for a better culture?

Danielle Farage: Yeah, for sure. I think this, this kind of reminds me of the conversation happening right now, that a few really big thinkers are sort of saying, hey, if you're young, you should go to the office. Because if you don't, you're not going to be promoted and you're not going to get face time, whatever that means with, with older people are like more, you know, higher ups. And, and to that I say, I don't buy into it. I sort of think about the experience before COVID regarding like the young professional at work. It's not one that is – and I'm overgeneralizing 100%. But I think that the pandemic gives us this opportunity to like rethink how we interact at work and beyond the workplace.

So, in terms of like, sort of your question around how would you navigate this time? Right. I think that generally if you're, you have the opportunity, like I said earlier, if you have the opportunity to explore and explore different ways and discover new ways of working, whether you're remote working, you're remote first, which I was this past year, and I had the opportunity to go to Paris four times, if you're doing that, hey I'm going to step into it. On the flip, if you're hybrid working, and you get the opportunity to choose which days you want to go into the office, I think that like Cafe, which is where I work, the technology that empowers you to sort of make decisions around when you want to go to the office based on who's there and like what's going on. I think those sorts of tools really help enhance that experience, especially for young workers who want to be super social. And I think that generally just staying open to like opportunities and like not closing yourself off because I've seen my very close friends go into a specific industry or a specific role and like really narrow themselves down to like, okay, this is definitely what I want to do. A year later, they're bored. And I think that just staying open to opportunities is just a really huge thing that I'm definitely an advocate of. And it's something that like helped me land my job, which has brought so much goodness into my life, and also helped me again, explore and discover this new way of working, which was remote first, at first, because it was sort of forced, but that was my last job. But like, now, I've just sort of learned how to adapt and how to work alone and that I have to, in order to like, find a community to work with in New York City, most of the year that I have to go out and do that, and I have to instigate it and I have to like, surround myself with those people who I want to meet and be with.

Mary Killelea: In your newsletter and website, you focus on the importance of community building, as means to bridge the generational divides, mend toxic cultures, and find fulfillment. Can you extrapolate on that?

Danielle Farage: For sure. So, it kind of started in 2020. I was sitting at home. I had just left a toxic job. And I had just started a new job, where the culture was incredible. And essentially, I sat there in New York City apartment, I was living at home, I still live at home, and proud of it. Okay. So, I'm saving money. And I thought to myself, hey, like, who is my tribe? And is it my high school friends? Is it people I grew up with? Like, is it people from college who moved to New York City? Like, who is it that I feel like is my tribe? And at the time, realistically, I just graduated, I moved home forcefully because of the pandemic. I didn't get to finish my college experience, my all the fun senior things, like none of that. And I had just gone through this really traumatic experience, realistically, so I wasn't in like, the happiest place. And I think in that sort of pain, if that's what we want to call it, I started asking the harder questions. And that's where the where is my tribe question came from.

And as I started to evaluate and really think critically about that, I realized, oh, okay, I don't have a strong network yet. I just started my career. I don't know that many young professionals living in New York City, especially in tech, and that's who I want to surround myself with. And I think that's what really led me to then going on LinkedIn and starting to share how I was feeling. And at the beginning, it was really about like, going through this toxic workplace experience, like the positives that I wanted to see, right? I wanted to see leadership who really sought to understand this younger generation and young professionals and the experience of going through work during the pandemic or starting it, or having this job that you have looked forward to for a year, be postponed three, four, five, six, seven months without knowing when you're going to start. So I think that it was sort of my posting on LinkedIn, I started to do a lot of Clubhouse rooms. And I started just kind of like collecting these people who I really loved and wanted to be a part of my life. And there are a few different methods, which this might be helpful to people looking to build their tribe, which were Clubhouse was one. Now there are a ton of audios. So like, you could do Twitter spaces or LinkedIn audio, or still clubhouse, if that's what you want. And then, yeah, like just being open on social media. If people on LinkedIn, like reached out to me, and I liked what they were about, I might like invite them to the future of work community, which I was really a huge part of. Or I would invite them to coffee, or, you know, invite them to a LinkedIn live audio room, do something or a Zoom meeting, as simple as that. So just kind of staying open.

And then third, and really, this was a big part of it. So through those relationships, I created these friend friendships, which I now call friendtorships. So essentially, I was on the phone with one of my friendtors, and she was trying to thank me for all the help, sort of guiding her through this work situation, and helping her like secure an internship and like a job after that. And I, and she said, Hey, Danielle, like, thank you so much. Like, this means the world to me that you would be with me on the phone and just give me all this advice. And I said, Farhiya, please, like, don't thank me. We're not, I'm not even your mentor at this point. Like, I'm just your friend. And that's when we came up I said, I'm your friendtor. And that was sort of the start of this word that I felt like really encapsulated all of the friendships that I had created over the pandemic. And these people who I did clubhouse rooms with, and who are consultants and PhDs, and people who are running things out there in the world and like doing that thing that like I want to be doing one day. And I just realized, like, I'm very grateful because I have created a tribe around me. And it really was through being vulnerable and sharing my opinion and just being me and being authentically me. And I think that my best advice for that story generally is like, don't be afraid to be authentically you and to find like one channel, even whether it's TikTok, or it's Instagram, or it's not even social media, maybe it's events, I'm throwing one in a month for future work builders. So whatever the mode is where you feel like you could really shine, I would say just like lean into it, and find people that way that really resonate with you and who you can really like identify with.

Mary Killelea: That really is such great advice. I've been hearing this term quite a bit, like the creator economy, where by through doing, you gain confidence and you end up attracting the people that you want in your life because you're doing it. And I will attest to that, because through writing, you know, my blog or doing the podcast, I'm meeting women that I generally wouldn't have met had I not taken the initiative to start something. So, I love what you said, and it is about showing up and being vulnerable. When you took on your various roles, or when you consider a promotion or role or new opportunity, do you have any non-negotiables?

Danielle Farage: I love this topic. That's such a good question. I've written about this a few times on LinkedIn, and I think it's so important. I think that my few non-negotiables, like in the past, I think they've been different from now, just because I've learned what my real non-negotiables are. So, I would say like one that's been consistent has been just like identifying with the purpose of a company. And I think in my first real job after that toxic workplace that I mentioned, my first real job, the reason why I loved it so much and the culture specifically was that their third slide of the onboarding deck was about diversity, equity, and inclusion. And when I saw that, I realized, oh, like they get it, right? So, like from the start. And it also showed me that like and specifically in that role where I was and just where the company was, I felt very aligned in terms of like the growth trajectory of the company and myself. I saw myself as like, oh, wow, like I really could see myself as their in-house creator or helping them navigate, you know, this part of the brand and that having a real impact on my career. So, I'd say like that's a really big one is, I guess it's two, is like one being aligned with the purpose and also like seeing yourself aligned with the company and its growth and trajectory. And I think that's actually one of the biggest reasons why people leave their jobs is because they don't see the opportunity for career growth. So, I'd say like those are two really big ones.

I'd say the third for me is definitely a positive workplace culture. It's what I talk about a lot and I think that stems from that same values alignment. But I think it goes sort of beyond just like the work, right? What am I doing every day? Am I feeling connected to that? And do I feel like it's creating an output for someone else in a positive way? But it's more like, do I feel aligned in my values with the company and how they actually treat people, right? It's not just about what you say, but it's actually also about like what you do. And I'm teaching a lot of my friends, and also the people that I mentor slash my friendtors through Odyssey is like, I'm just saying, hey, like, pay attention to how they're addressing the whole remote work thing. Like, what kind of language are they using around it? What are the policies? Do they think, hey, anyone can work from home whenever? Or do they think, hey, you have to come to the office from 6am to 7pm? I'm exaggerating, but I think that is very telling, especially about industries.

And just another quick example. My friend was interviewing at a big company. And essentially, he was interviewing for an engineering position. And they said that the role was in New York. And when he got to like the 18th interview or something, it's ridiculous. A lot of time goes by, right? You have all these, especially as an engineer, you kind of have to do these two more technical interviews, which take a lot of time. So he invests all this time. He says, they tell him, you're going to be in New York. They give him the offer. And on that day, they said you have 10 days to accept it and to move to Austin where the job is. So, all of a sudden, this guy who thinks his life is going to change because the salaries great and like he's really getting a bump in, you know, and also the confidence, right, going to work for a bigger company, you're like, oh, wow, I'm going to have this on my resume. Great. To have all that sort of taken away in one minute or to say, hey, you have to kind of giving this you have to move or else you don't get the job and being misled in that way. That tells me at least and probably him that the company is not honest. And it doesn't value people's time.

Mary Killelea: That's a really good point about value in a person's time, because there are some interviews that you go through and it's like days where it's like they ghosted you. And it was like this hurry up and wait, you know, you got to jump when they're ready to jump. But then there's a little disregard for your time. And I think it's great that you mentor at Odyssey. What would you say are some common questions that you usually get from friendtors?

Danielle Farage: I usually get questions around like, how do I have this conversation with my boss? I think a lot of young people don't know how to communicate with higher ups, because there is that power dynamic, which is a big part of why I advocate for younger generations having a voice because at the end of the day, if you're hiring someone for a social media position, right, and that that person's perspective, whether you know, if they're a Gen Z or right, their perspective is so important and impactful to the rest of the company and to the brand generally, and is probably going to generate you a lot of a lot of revenue. And realistically, does that person really know how valuable their skill set is, or just their relevancy to like, culture? No, they probably don't, because they're probably young, and they're probably being taken advantage of at the end of the day, let's be real. I actually saw a LinkedIn post about this the other day, but realistically, if you ask them their opinion, and you include them in the decision making, and you don't say no to their ideas, just because you'll probably gain a lot more insight, and it'll probably help with the rest of the organization.

Mary Killelea: I know I'm generalizing by just putting it social media, but even the relevance that you're getting out of school and the things that are being taught today versus when you know, school is much harder today than it was when I went. So I think there's a challenge or an opportunity, I should say, for educating directors, managers of really the talents and relevancy that you do bring to the business, which helps the bottom line.

Danielle Farage: Right, right. I think that the challenge or opportunity lies in curiosity, honestly. Because if you're not curious. If you see your kids, right, on social media, and you sort of assume, oh, they're wasting their time, then you're not being curious. You're assuming that social media is a waste of time, which it can be, but it can also be a huge opportunity and revenue driver and all those positive, warm, fuzzy things that we love. And I think that because of these assumptions that we make, whether it's social media is irrelevant, or things don't change, right, or things don't change as quickly as we as they really truly do, because in the creator game, and in the social media game, things can change like this, people can turn on Instagram, look what just happened, like this, right. And so I think that because of that, and that immediacy, and just the speed of which things are changing, and because of earlier things that we talked about, right, with the ageism and the sort of feeling less relevant, and that's the fear of that realistically, is the thing that's driving, I think this disconnect that is only, I think, furthering, because people are getting more and more afraid of, oh, well, that young person is going to replace me, and they're going to fire me and hire this young person. And I think it doesn't have to be that way. We can co-exist, we can also learn together, right, and empower each other and enable each other to get to the outcome that we really want to.

I'll give you an example. One time I was working, this was like in this toxic company, where my boss was saying, hey, we need 10,000 followers on Instagram. And I was like, okay, well, maybe where we start is we change our brand colors, because they're not pretty. And the thing with Instagram, especially at that time, was your feed needs to look good. And it didn't look good. And so I was trying my hardest to work with what we had and all that. And at the end of the day, she brought on a consultant and my boss, and it was one of her friends. And immediately her friend gets on the phone and says, these colors are atrocious, you need to change them. And I'm just sitting there like, yeah. If only she had had that curiosity that I'm talking about to say, well, why do you feel, what do you think about this color palette? What do you feel like we should be doing? If only she had asked me what I think, which is what she hired me to do in the first place, right? We probably would have made a better team. I probably would have stayed, you know, and who knows what would have happened. But my point is to say, without the curiosity, it can't happen. And I think that's the thing that's really lacking on both ends, right? And that's why a lot of my friendtorships, like with people who are different ages, like I talk about that on social media, don't be afraid to be friends with people who are older than you or working at different companies because you never know what that could lead to. And I'm, yeah. So that's, yeah, that's what I'll say about that. I don't know, how do you feel about that response?

Mary Killelea: Oh, I like it. And I think it was very helpful to hear the example, because it illustrates the curiosity point, like explicitly. I mean, why she would find value from a consultant versus the person that she hired to do the job, who is probably the most relevant to the audience demographic. So, you've achieved a lot of success, and I'm excited for your role right now and just the opportunities. What drives you?

Danielle Farage: Yeah, that's a good question. I think that what drives me is optimism, curiosity, and I guess just this belief that everyone has something special within them. And it's like a Jewish thing teaching about like, an ishamah, like everyone has like a little piece of God within them and in their soul. And I truly want that to be expressed in its most thorough, loudest form in every person. And I just think that like the world would be so much better and brighter. And, you know, even though there is so much evil out there and happening and not to discount that, I think that energy is a real thing that exists. And the more people that you have doing the thing that they love and feeling fulfilled every single day, I think that the brighter the world is going to be and become. And so I guess what drives me is just like this optimism that that will happen, that everyone will be able to express themselves fully and freely. And that that we will sort of have a better, more positive world and atmosphere because of it.

Mary Killelea: All right, I'm going to end with my standard question. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Danielle Farage: I like that question. Like most of the questions, I mean, I really loved all your questions today. This is really amazing. I think to be bolder, to me, means to lean into your intuition and to really follow the thoughts that come to you that resonate. And that also help you get closer to the person that you're trying to become.

Mary Killelea: I love that. We're all on a journey and yeah, it's not the destination. It's the journey, right?

Danielle Farage: 100%.

Mary Killelea: Thank you so much for being on the show.

Danielle Farage: Thank you so much. This was awesome.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at to be bolder.com. That's the number two little b bolder.com.