Career Growth Advice from Jody Little, Education Leader | Career Tips for Women in Education

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 79
Featuring Jody Little

Episode Title: #79 Career Podcast Featuring Jody Little, an Elementary School Teacher and a Successful Children's Book Author

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Jody Little



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you, encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Thanks for tuning in. I think many of us either have admired a teacher in our life or thought of becoming a teacher at one point or another. Today's guest is Jody Little, and she has worked in the education field as a middle school teacher, substitute, science specialist, third grade teacher, and is currently a fifth grade teacher. During this time, she has also relentlessly pursued her lifelong dream of becoming a traditionally published author of children's novels. In March of 2019, her debut middle grade novel, Mostly the Honest Truth, was released by HarperCollins and received honors including Indy's Introduce and Indy's First from the American Book Sellers Association, Amazon Best Book of the Month selection, and Oregon Book Award finalist. Her second book, Worse Than Weird, followed in 2020 and was also named a finalist for the Oregon Book Award and a nominee for Arkansas State Charlie May Simon Award.

Jody strives to share her passion for reading, writing, and storytelling with her students, colleagues, and other writers, encouraging them to hone their craft and persevere in their dreams. Something very dear to my heart and totally appropriate for this podcast, so I'm so glad she's here. She is an active member of the Society of Children Book Writers and Illustrators as well as Writing Critique Group. Jody received her bachelors of science in education at Oregon State University and her masters of science in curriculum and development at Portland State University. When not teaching or writing, she enjoys hot yoga, visiting the library and bookstores, hiking, and spending time with her family and friends. Jody, it is so nice to meet you. Thank you for being on the show.

Jody Little (Guest): Thank you for having me. I'm honored to be here.

Mary Killelea: Okay, so teaching is what a lot of women grow up wanting, so I'm glad you're here to talk about this career path. Can you tell us about your career path?

Jody Little: Sure. Well, both my parents actually were in education. My mom taught both junior high and high school and then later in her career, she moved to the university setting where she worked in education departments and training student teachers. My father, high school teacher, and then went into college and was also a coach, but having said that, I never had a moment where I wanted to be a teacher as a young person. I actually, when I was in first grade, I came home and told my mom that I wanted to be an author, so that was kind of always the career path that I wanted. When I started, well, let me backtrack.

When I was in high school, I was very into athletics and I played both volleyball and basketball. As I was thinking about getting ready for college and what I wanted to do, I was thinking more of sports medicine or athletic training or physical therapy. That's when I started college studying. Somewhere in the end of my second year, and I can't pinpoint an exact moment, but I decided to switch my major to education. I do have a memory of being in my first practicum experience where I was in a kindergarten classroom. I was mostly just observing, but I had this epiphany where I realized this is what I need to be doing. This is what I love, and it made me think back to my own elementary years. I loved elementary school. I was just one of those kids that I loved going to school every day. I loved every single one of my teachers and the activities we did. I just thought, this is what you need to be doing. You need to be in this place that you've always loved so much.

Mary Killelea: That's a wonderful story, and you're lucky to have that appreciation knowing that you're in the right place.

Jody Little: Right. Right.

Mary Killelea: Well, no job is perfect. In this podcast, I'd like to talk about the pros and cons. What are some of the pros and cons of teaching?

Jody Little: For me, the pros are just the people each day. Of course, there's my students. My students bring me immense joy each day. I love their little stories. I love the way their little brains flicker when they get something. They make me smile every single day. Then at the same time, there's also just my colleagues. Teaching just requires so many different little micro skills. Being able to bounce ideas off of my colleagues and seeing, well, how are they delivering this lesson? What are their tips for classroom management? What are their tips for getting kids to talk to each other and share their thoughts? It's wonderful to have just great people to work with. That, to me, those things, people would be the pros of teaching.

I guess the cons would just be the workload. It is a job that requires a lot. We prepare lessons in elementary school. We have seven different content areas that we have to prepare lessons for each day. There's, of course, reviewing students' work and grading it. There's staff meetings, meeting with parents, the ongoing emails. All jobs, I know, have a lot of detailed work, but I would say that would be one of the cons of teaching. Again, that said, the more you do it and the more you practice it, some things don't require as much work after a while.

Mary Killelea: That's good that you bring that up because one thing I think from a corporate job, not working with children and their minds and who they are as little people, you have the ability to turn off your job. I would imagine teaching, you don't really have that ability to, at five o'clock, check out and say, okay, it's all me and my family now.

Jody Little: Yeah, it's a struggle. It's a struggle. That's something that, as I've progressed in my career, I've really tried to do that a lot, to really say, okay, it's 3:30 or it's four o'clock, whatever time I go home and switch to family gear. In my case now, with my children are not in the home anymore. It would be switching to my writing mode, perhaps. Even saying that, though, your students are always on your mind.

Mary Killelea: That's the sign of a good teacher. Teachers is one of those fields like nursing, to me, where it seems like there always is going to be a need for that. What advice do you have for those in the field when they're screening for either taking a role or not taking a role? What are some of the things that they should consider in working for a certain district or working? A lot of people may take the first thing that comes to them, but what should they take time and consider?

Jody Little: Yeah, that's a really good question. I always like to encourage people or young people who are considering education in general to work with kids in the summertime, like experience summer camps. There's ways that you can tutor kids. Actually, too, another great opportunity is to work in daycares. Do you even enjoy just having that energy of young people around you all the time? Because you get in that situation, and if you are overwhelmed and you are not enjoying this, then obviously teaching isn't the thing that you should be doing.

There is also great opportunities for classified staff, so working in a school setting. You might be doing a lot of recess duty or you might be working with small groups of kids. Doing that sort of position in different sorts of schools, I think, will give you just a lot of ideas about the difference between a Title I school or a school with a higher socioeconomic status. Yeah, so I guess I would just say explore those options. And I agree with you that, especially now, teaching is a field where we're really seeing a shortage, and particularly in the area of special ed, we're seeing a huge shortage of teachers.

Mary Killelea: After COVID, which was so disruptive to the education system, you know, there was online learning before, but it was very, I would say, niche or in pockets. And since COVID, it's exploded. From a teacher's perspective, how does teaching change, techniques and how you approach it when you're doing it online versus in the classroom?

Jody Little: Yeah, great question. When COVID hit, as teachers, you know, we had to pivot to this online. And every teacher that I ever talked to, we all decided that it just feels like we're first-year teachers all over again. So, I think that when you're online, so to go back in the classroom, you know, the beginning of the year, you've got your classroom to set up, your physical space to set up. You've got your routines to set, your schedule to set, thinking through how am I going to transition students? How am I going to group the students? So, we had all of that with online, but then we had to figure out how are we going to do it on Zoom? This is a platform that we've never even used before. We had to learn how to use either Canvas or CSAW to put our assignments in. So, the difference, I mean, is clearly in that connection. It's really hard to connect with a checkerboard of students, as opposed to, you know, having them right there in your classroom. That was the piece that I think I had to work on the most, other than learning all of the technology. Of course, that was huge.

But once the technology got a little easier, it was just trying to figure out how am I going to connect with this child on the computer screen and show them that I do care and find activities that make them feel engaged. It was a huge challenge. And I mean, I feel like it's important to say that when it comes to online learning, equity is really the key word, because if you have a device at home and you have secure good internet at home, supportive parents, those kids were going to do okay with online learning.

Mary Killelea: Yes. And there's so many things that we could talk on that subject around online learning. But I'm so glad that you brought that up. Speaking of equity, let's talk about as a woman, have you ever felt there are issues of pay discrimination in teaching or, and help me understand this, because I don't know if it's all managed through unions and based on seniority and scale. How does the pay structure or negotiation of, you know, a job offer or promotion work?

Jody Little: Now I can only speak for the state of Oregon. In our state, at public school districts, the pay scales on the pay ranges are set by the district, and then the union. So, there's a negotiation that occurs. So typically, in all the districts I've worked on, it worked in the pay scale is based on the number of years experience and then your educational experience as well. So, I haven't felt discrimination in that way in terms of pay scales. But, you know, one thing that's interesting to me is looking at a teaching professional versus other professionals, because as educated professionals, teachers are paid very low. And it's just it's an intriguing puzzle to me and a great debate to think about. So, what's the value of a teacher? What does a teacher provide to individuals, to an organization, to the society in general, versus say an engineer or a doctor? I mean, it's hard to compare. I mean, it's apples versus oranges comparison work. But it's an interesting question. So I guess I struggle with being a very low paid professional. But again, it's not discrimination. It's just kind of a societal question, right, of what we value.

Mary Killelea: Without a doubt. And I don't think, I don't know, anyone that I've ever had this topic with, to vote saying, yes, they're paid well, like teachers are paid appropriately for the workload and challenges and tasks that they face every day. And that's what is so scratch your head about is like, from a society standpoint, society thinks teachers are undervalued and underpaid. So why hasn't it shifted or changed?

Jody Little: Yeah.

Mary Killelea: And I don't know what the answer is. And I think that is where you're starting to see some of these younger generations coming in and saying, well, maybe I'll do tutoring. So, I still love children. I still want to do this, but I'm going to start my own business. And you can have a quite profitable business from affecting and impacting children in more of a private sector.

Jody Little: Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. I do feel like to go back to your thought on, you know, people agreeing that teachers might be underpaid. And I think COVID helped with that, too. I mean, parents were in the background, teachers were doing and their gratitude, I think, grew immensely for the job that we are doing each day.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely. Well, take us through a typical day as a fifth grade teacher and how you prepare for it.

Jody Little: Sure. Well, I'm an early bird. I love getting up early. So, I'm usually there easily an hour, hour, 15 minutes before school starts. That's just time for me to get all my lessons prepared for the day, make sure they're ready to go, tidy up the room and talk with colleagues if there's loose ends that we need to do. When kids start arriving, it's really important to me that I greet each student personally, kind of check in with them, gauge their mood, see if there's any quick little intervention I need to do. We have what we call a soft start, which allows kids to stream in and just get their day started and acclimated. And then the schedule begins, you know, we begin with math while their brains are fresh. They go to specials, which is PE or music. I always make sure that I have a portion of my day that's set aside for read aloud so I can introduce both a picture book a day. And then of course, we read a novel together. And while this is going on. There's always little fires you're putting out. Student is upset about something or struggling with whatever it might be.

Yeah, gosh, what else can I say about my day as a teacher? Afternoon, sometimes they're filled with meetings, staff meetings, not too much. I mean, my administrators are great about honoring our time and our need to plan. So, gosh, what am I missing?

Mary Killelea: No, no, I think there's the fires that you must have to put out and just the ongoing reactionary approach all day long. I would just see as a constant.

Jody Little: Oh, absolutely. And sometimes at the end of the day, I'll look at what I had planned, realize, OK, well, we didn't get to this math talk, so we're going to shift that to tomorrow. And then everything's an adjustment. So you can make plans for a week, but they will never go as you would expect.

Mary Killelea: So that brings up a good question. You've been a teacher for some time and you see new teachers coming into, you know, your school. What do you think is or what do you hear to be the most surprising to them, like that college or educational training didn't prepare them for?

Jody Little: Honestly, it's a small thing, but I think it has to do with transitions. I think the hardest thing for young teachers is to transition, say, from they're all reading silently and now we have to line up to go to P.E. Or just that transition between one subject to the next subject. It's something that falls through the cracks in teaching programs. And you can lose your kids' attention in just a snap of your fingers in those transitions and then to calm them all down again. The other thing that I always tell young teachers is do not spend a day or two days decorating your classroom because honestly, the kids don't care. They just want to come into the classroom. They want to learn and they want to see you. They don't want to see what's up on the walls and don't go to Pinterest. Pinterest will just overwhelm you. It will make you feel inferior.

Mary Killelea: Right. Right. Right.

Jody Little: So, yeah, it's taking time to focus on how are you going to transition? How are you going to get the kids' attention each day? And again, these are such little things, but if you don't think them through, your day can fall apart. Yeah. And your ability to manage your students can fall apart.

Mary Killelea: The basics are always some of the most important things. I admire and love the fact that you followed your passion to write and have become an accomplished author. Tell me about your love for writing. I know you said when you were younger, you told your mom that you wanted to be an author. So, it's been in you from a very young age. How did you reignite that?

Jody Little: Yeah. Great question. So, yeah, like I mentioned as a child, I was the kid in elementary school where when I finished my work, I would get out this story that I was writing and I would just be writing on that story. And so I wrote it home and I had just peachy folders. Remember those?

Mary Killelea: Yes.

Jody Little: Filled with these stories that I saved and my mom has some of them. And then as I got into high school and got involved in sports, then I didn't write as much. I mean, I didn't have as much time between homework and sports. And then it just sort of dwindled in college as well. I think it was rekindled a little bit with a creative writing class that I took in college where I signed up for it just because it was a requirement. And it was checking off a box. But as I was going through the class, I just was enjoying it so much. And I was receiving strong feedback from both my classmates and then the teacher as well. And it just made me realize that I do like doing this. I do love story. And so, in the back of my mind, even though I went into teaching, I thought I am going to write a novel someday. And it took many, many years. But then I finally did probably somewhere in my 30s, I finally decided to sit down and write that novel. So, and the one that I wrote is not my first one that was published. So the one that I wrote first is just on my computer hard drive. It probably will never get published.

Mary Killelea: That's interesting to note, though, the fact that you started a novel and finished it, and it never got published. But I mean, that's really important milestone that you kept you on, or I guess ignited and helped ignite the passion to continue.

Jody Little: Right, right.

Mary Killelea: Tell us about the Mostly the Honest Truth. Your first book.

Jody Little: Right, right. So Mostly the Honest Truth I would call it it's my second manuscript, as I mentioned, my first one didn't get published. I so I wrote a draft of it in during National Novel Writing Month, we writers refer to it as Nanowrimo. And so the month of November, it's just it's a made up event, essentially, but it's a community of writers that make an agreement that they're going to complete an entire novel in the month of November.

Mary Killelea: Wow.

Jody Little: Yeah. So that's what I did. And I wrote my first draft of Mostly the Honest Truth. And it was terrible. And I set it aside and went back, I think, to my first manuscript and was doing some revision. But finally, when I returned to it, it probably was a year later that I returned to it. I decided that there were some little nuggets in here that were worth exploring. I changed the character a little bit, the main character, wrote a second draft. And by that point, I had a literary agent. And I sent him what I had. He liked it and gave me some feedback on it. Anyway, kind of fast forward in the back of a bit. We went back and forth with revisions. And I probably did. I think I counted somewhere between 23 drafts of that novel. Yeah. And we submitted it. It got rejected probably 20 to 30 times. And my agent was fantastic. He just kept saying, Jody, I know this is it's disappointing, but it really just takes one editor, just one editor to fall in love with it.
And finally, we found that editor at HarperCollins. So, from 2008, when I wrote the draft during NaNoWriMo to 2017, when I was offered the contract, so it was nine years process.

Mary Killelea: That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. So there's got to be self-doubt within that span of time. What did you tell yourself? How did you continue that resilience in your writing?

Jody Little: Absolutely. I have so much self-doubt. I mean, it's it's this roller coaster of, you know, being praised for great writing. But then, but we just didn't think that our sales team could sell the book. So, every little bit of positive feedback, I would just try to internalize and remind myself that I that I was a good writer. I have an amazing critique group who are like my cheerleaders. And we have a just sort of an agreement that when we get rejections, we all just eat chocolate. And we tell each other to just keep going and persevere. And my agent, like I said, he's amazing. He just has encouraged me every step of the way.

And I think for me, I had some advice to just self-publish. And that would have been easy. But it's just not what I wanted to do. I really wanted it to be in the hands of a traditional publisher. I wanted it to be in bookstores. I wanted it to be in my school library, my books. And so, I just wanted to keep going and make that dream come true because it was important. It was important to me.

Mary Killelea: I'm so in awe of that. And I admire that. Writing one book is not easy, but you've done it twice. Or actually, probably three times now with that the one manuscript that didn't get published, but Worse than Weird. That's your other one that I want to talk about. Can you tell? And I guess we should we should back up for a minute because we didn't even really talk about the book. And I want the listeners to understand what is the story of the first book, Mostly the Honest Truth.

Jody Little: Oh, right. Yeah. So Mostly the Honest Truth is a story of a young girl who comes into a new foster family situation. And this she has a father who's an alcoholic. And that's made clear very early on in the story, In first chapter. So she's been taken to this new community, if you will, called Three Boulders. And it's a very untraditional community. They are some people would call it a commune, probably. So, she's put into this situation. And the only thing she wants is to return to her father just wants to get back to her pop. So, it is a story of a young girl coming to terms with who her father is, what family means, and her recognizing that family doesn't have to just be her blood relative. Family can be an entire community. So that's kind of the story in a nutshell.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's amazing. I love that. So, my mind goes to what parts of that come from reality in your life? Or is it all based on just creativity and like things that you've absorbed or found stimulating through things you've read?

Jody Little: Right, right. Not a lot of it comes from my real life, I should say. This book was interesting because it actually began with a writing prompt that I was given by one of my critique group members. And the writing prompt was write a story about a new girl who comes to a town with a scar. So, Jane is my character and she comes to this new town of Three Boulders and she has a scar from an incident that happened with her father. And I can't go into details about that. I don’t want to give the thing away. But I do think that there's characters in this story that are reminiscent of people that I've known in my life or beloved family members. I try not to think too much about my own life and writing my experiences, but thinking about the best pieces of people that I know that I want to pull into certain characters. Setting, though, is important. So, in Worse Than Weird, it's set in the city of Portland. So there is that piece to it that's part of my world.

Mary Killelea: And do you also think in your writing, and especially do you also think in your writing and especially that book, do you think what are the takeaways going to be? I mean, as a teacher, do you have like, I want these lessons of life to come out, or is that completely separate?

Jody Little: Absolutely. Yeah, I think about probably anytime I'm writing, I think about what is it that I want a reader to come away with? Yeah, what are those themes? And so definitely with Mostly the Honest Truth, that notion of family has many different meanings was really important. And if I can have that on my mind as I'm writing, it can help me develop the characters, it can help me figure out how they react to one another. So yeah, knowing theme is important.

Mary Killelea: Let's talk about Worse Than Weird. Tell us about that book.

Jody Little: Yeah, so Worse Than Weird, like I said, like I said, is set in the city of Portland. And it has a lot of different origins. People who have been in Portland a while will probably remember that during the Rose Festival, there is a medallion hunt. And I remember reading the clues from the Oregonian before they were online. And I could not for the life of me figure these clues out. I had no idea. But I was intrigued by them as well. They were always written as a rhyme. So anyway, I thought how fun would it be to write a story about a hunt or a scavenger hunt like this? So, I decided that my scavenger hunt though was going to be related to food carts. Portland, you know, loves their food carts. The premise of the story is there is a girl and she is, she considers her parents to be worse than weird. So, they lead a very, how shall I say it, a hippie lifestyle, if you will, just for lack of better words, raising chickens, they are getting into goat yoga, they drum, they have this drumming circle that they do.

Anyway, the main character is mortified by them. She wants to be a computer coder. And so she needs to raise money to go to this coding camp of her dreams. And hence, she does this scavenger hunt through the food carts. So it's a story. It's kind of like my in a way, just like me honoring the city of Portland and all of its weirdness, and also kind of showcasing some of our city's homeless issues. So we do bring that in a little bit. And worse than weird, I think is both a joyful story and a serious story. Hopefully, it makes readers laugh. And hopefully, it makes young people read certain sections and think, oh, I know exactly where that is in the city. Right?

Mary Killelea: What do the teachers I mean, sorry, do the students understand that you're an author as well as a teacher?

Jody Little: Yes, yes, we it comes up a lot. You know, I really tried to separate my two careers, but I've actually found that sharing with them what I'm doing and the writing process is helpful.

Mary Killelea: Oh, yeah.

Jody Little: For example, when I tell them that it took me 23 drafts to get my first book published, that's overwhelming to them. And when they get to the point where they've written a rough draft, and I'm encouraging them to revise it, they don't they sort of understand that, oh, yeah, I guess I can make it better.

Mary Killelea: Right, right.

Jody Little: Because a lot of people want to just write a draft and be done with it.

Mary Killelea: Sure. And they can't push it back saying you wouldn't do this.

Jody Little: Yes, in fact, I have.

Mary Killelea: Exactly. What is the best piece of advice you've received through writing?

JL: Oh, yeah. I think the best part the best advice I've received probably comes from a writer, Lisa Cron. She has written a book called Wired for Story and Story Genius, two books which I would highly recommend to anybody who wants to write fiction. And the advice is pretty simple. And that's just to dig deeper. And once you think you know your character, dig deeper, like what is in your character's past that really shapes who she is or he is? What experiences have they had that make them react certain ways? The more you know your character and know your character's past, the better you can write about them. So, dig deeper is kind of the catchphrase in my critique group as well. When we're starting new drafts or developing new characters, that's constantly what we're saying. Dig deeper, dig deeper.

Mary Killelea: I took a book writing class once and it was for self-publishing. And they said if you were thinking of getting rich, think again from writing a book. Can publishing a book be profitable?

Jody Little: Well, I've had some advice. Like the advice that I received was keep your day job. So, I really can only speak for children's writers. There are children's writers that do make a living and are profitable. But in addition to writing and selling their books, they're generally doing school visits, author talks, attending conferences. They might even on the side do some editing services for individuals. So, they've made a career that involves, of course, selling their books, but involves just that mentorship of writing as well. So yeah, I do think it could be profitable.

Mary Killelea: That's great. So do you have another book in the works?

Jody Little: I currently have a book on submission, which means it's being read by various editors. And so my fingers are crossed. I received a couple of rejections this week, but you know, I have to find the right one.

Mary Killelea: I was just going to say to me, that doesn't mean anything to you after hearing your ability for resilience. So I love that. : Tell me what to be bolder means to you.

Jody Little: Oh yeah, that's, I love that. To me, to be bolder, I think we need to like young people, young women need to give themselves the grace to be vulnerable. I know that as a writer, I mentioned that whole digging deeper. And when you're digging deeper into a character, you're looking for those vulnerabilities. And I think that even just as humans or as a professional, we need to think about our own just vulnerabilities. What are those areas that we need to work on? Whether it's an anxiety that we have, whether it's trauma we've experienced, give yourself the grace to work on those pieces of your life that make you feel uncomfortable or that make you feel like you're not good enough. If we can encourage young people to just say, it's okay for me to admit, you know, what I'm not good at or what I need to work on. And then have the courage to go out and fix those things, find the classes that you need, find the therapist that you might need. Yeah, be bold enough to do that.

Mary Killelea: I love that. Is there anything that you would do differently now if you could say, magic wand and you're back in time related to being a teacher or a writer?

Jody Little: Well, I think that with writing, I think I would have started sooner. That would be one thing. With teaching, I started my teaching career in middle school. And it was, I had mentioned to you before how when I was doing my practicum work, I was in elementary programs, but I couldn't find an elementary job. So, I went into middle school and I wish that I would have made the switch as soon as possible into elementary. But I spent 10 years in middle school, and I truly didn't love it and even stopped teaching for a while before I went back. I think I would just, yeah, I just would have sped along my career path a little more. But at the same time, I, I try not to regret too much about what I've done. I mean, I think I'm pretty pleased with how everything has gone. I think I'm a much better teacher now, having done both middle school and taken some time off. I think in some ways that strengthened my ability and my knowledge.

Mary Killelea: Absolutely. That's, that's awesome. Okay. Before we wrap up our conversation, is there any last wisdom you'd like to share with the audience who might be interested in becoming a teacher or an author?

Jody Little: Yeah, I would just say my best piece of advice would just be balance. I mentioned that I get up really early, so I get up very early. My first two hours of my day is devoted to writing. And so that is my time. Nobody else is up in the house. And then I'm really good at, like I said, separating my schedule. So, my commute to work is like my time to put writing behind me, think about my day ahead, same thing coming home. It's like, shut the teaching day down. So, I think balance is just the key. Whatever a person might choose, if you're a creative soul, so will balance your creativity with your job. And because you can do both, I really believe that you can.

Mary Killelea: It has been such a pleasure having you on and hearing about your parallel careers. Both are so admirable. And I have learned a lot in this conversation. So, thank you for sharing.

Jody Little: You're so welcome. It's been my pleasure.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two, little bbolder.com.