Career Growth Advice from Colette Stallbaumer, AI Leader | Career Tips for Women in AI

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 97
Featuring Colette Stallbaumer, from Microsoft

Episode Title: #97 Navigating the Future of Work with Colette Stallbaumer: Insights from Microsoft's AI and Work Culture Expert

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Colette Stallbaumer



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax and enjoy the conversation.

Thanks for joining us today. Today's guest is a successful female tech leader who was raised in a small town in Nebraska to go on and become one of the most well-respected leaders at Microsoft.

Colette Stallbaumer is the general manager of Future of Work at Microsoft 365. She is responsible for Co-Pilot for Microsoft 365, which is your AI-powered Co-Pilot for Work and leads the team behind the Microsoft Work Trend Index and Microsoft Work Lab, driving research to help predict and shape a more fulfilling, flexible future of work for everyone. Her team is focused on helping every customer adapt and thrive in the platform, shift to the next generation of AI. For the latest data and insights on how work is changing, visit Work Lab and the 2023 Work Trend Index. Colette, thank you so much for joining us.

Colette Stallbaumer (Guest): Thank you so much for having me, Mary. I'm thrilled to be here.

Mary Killelea: OK, so I would love part of the interviews that I do is hearing from successful women, your journey, your career choices. So, can you take us through your life at Microsoft and even if you want to step back a little farther on how you even entered the doors of Microsoft?

Colette Stallbaumer: Oh, my gosh. Yeah, so, you know, I'm a Midwest gal, born and bred. I grew up in Nebraska on a farm in Nebraska, working farm ranch, oldest of six kids. So, I kind of come by my, I guess, my responsible sort of achiever minded personality naturally, given a lot of responsibility, frankly, at a young age. And so, I made my way. I have a journalism degree as well from the University of Nebraska-Lincoln, as you and I were chatting just before the show started. I made my way from and I started in advertising. I have an advertising background, agency background at J. Walter Thompson and DDB Needham in Chicago. Made my way to the Pacific Northwest to try to give the abbreviated version here. And I had done a couple of different technology things, got into tech at that time. I actually did national advertising campaigns for AT&T Wireless. And was at another software startup or two? And then made my way to advertising. I mean, sorry, to Microsoft, rather.

You can kind of chart my career at Microsoft by the technology inflection points. So it's really interesting. You know, I worked in advertising, and I worked on the first ever cloud campaign for Microsoft when we made the pivot to the cloud. It was called All-In in the cloud. I worked on, you know, sort of when the company moved from being what was considered a very kind of closed Windows company to a very open, interoperable company partnering with Linux, et cetera. And, you know, now here we are at the tech inflection with AI. And along the way, I had some really interesting left turns. You know, I opened a boutique at one point. I was a boutique owner. So, I did kind of experimented with, dabbled in being a small business owner. So I've had a little bit of experience at that.

And then what I kind of describe as sort of my biggest left turn in my career, and one that's been, you know, really rewarding, is I took a speech writing role, you know, first for the chief operating officer at the time, and then ultimately for our CEO, Satya Nadella, when he became CEO in 2014. And that's taught me an awful lot and led me to my current role leading sort of this revolution in AI with Copilot.

Mary Killelea: How did you handle the pressure writing the speeches for the CEO of the company? I mean…

Colette Stallbaumer: That's a great question. That's a great question. You know, I mean, I think it starts with really understanding who that person is. Right? I mean, if you're going to be a speechwriter, that's sort of the definition of service leadership. And you really have to want to be inside their head and mind and, you know, what makes them tick? What drives them? You know, Satya is a fantastic leader. And when I joined his team at the time to work on what was really our culture transformation of the company, and so that was a really exciting time to be working for him. But, you know, he's also a technology visionary.

Mary Killelea: Right?

Colette Stallbaumer: And so that meant that I had to get as smart as I could about all of our technology. And, you know, again, be really curious, right? Use the products, get inside things. And I think that really is a hallmark of what makes anyone really kind of great at their role. Right?

Mary Killelea: I think, you know, you touched on it for a sec, the culture transformation. That is, as being an outsider from Microsoft, it really is the role model that I think other companies want to emulate. So, to be a part of that, how exciting and what a great opportunity. And you're a leader and looked up to for your own innovation. You're known for like taking people from A to Z as one of your superpowers, you might say. What does that mean? And how did you recognize your own personal superpowers in leadership?

Colette Stallbaumer: Yeah, well, I think, again, sort of, you know, building on that experience in the office of the CEO, I think that was as much a, you know, as much about culture change or one of the ways, how do you turn the Titanic? Right? How do you turn a very hundred plus thousand person organization that's got a very deep culture? And I think some of the ways you do that are through really great communications, right? Really clear, succinct communications, setting a really clear North Star about where you want to go. And then being really consistent and repeating those key messages about our values, about growth mindset and where we wanted to head as a company, over and over and over again at every opportunity. And pushing, I learned a lot about how you how you permeate something like that through an entire hundred thousand person organization. It doesn't happen overnight, but through, you know, through clarity and consistency, you can, you can change the world.

Mary Killelea Do you see that the younger generation graduated and going into the workforce as a skill they embrace and have, or do you see it as a shortcoming because everyone was working or going to school in remote and COVID happened, and it affected how people learned and interacted and all the devices. So, I mean, it's a weird economy as we look at the younger generation coming up and some of the skills that are required as technology is moving so fast.

Colette Stallbaumer: Yeah, I totally, I totally agree. I, I do. I think it’s; you know, I think about this with my own daughter. In fact, you know, I'm a mom of a 13 year old and a 15 year old and two teenagers and, going on 20 something. And I kind of think that, you know, kids today and early in career today have have a different approach and mindset to their career in that, you know, they think they think of it more of a, as a portfolio of experiences, right? And it can be multiple things at one time. It doesn't have to be, I'm just a corporate person. I'm also doing this, you know, side gig in my off hours or my own time where I'm a creator.

And then I think the best leaders and the brightest enterprises that understand that that is, you know, that is the way the world has shifted, embrace that and welcome that, right? And find a way to find a way to enable all those things to, to sort of coexist peaceably, if you will, and allow people to bring that person that's doing, that's a creator and then on the nights and weekends on social media might be the best at their job because of the creative ideas they're bringing to it as a marketer. And so I think it's sort of being willing to let people have, bring all those experiences to bear. But I do think that growth mindset is still relevant. I think that having a curious mindset, you know, is, is never going to lead you astray.

Mary Killelea: Right. Totally agree. So, with your time as being general manager, is there anything that surprised you about the role that you wish you would have known earlier?

Colette Stallbaumer: Oh my gosh. You know, I think I'll just offer that, like, I think, I think one of the things that I don't know if it's it has surprised me, but I think it's something I've really learned along the way that I continue kind of, I think, every day to re-learn and be mindful of is that Microsoft, they have a framework that's model coach care. And that really the caring piece of that is the most important. And that at the end of the day, a lot of what being a leader or manager is, including my role as a leader, it's not just to help people to help them grow, but to help them feel good while they're doing it. So, really, really help them grow to be the best, the best person that they can be. But also to make people feel good about what they're doing just on a daily basis in lots of little ways. I just think small acts of kindness and words of praise go a long, long way.

You know, I heard something recently that you need to give seven to ten pieces of positive feedback for every one negative. For people to really be open to receive that. And so I just, I think that's really interesting, right? I think that as leaders, we all sometimes don't pause to think enough about just how much my role every day is to make other people feel good about themselves.

Mary Killelea: That's wonderful. And I can agree with you more. I think we get so busy with our heads down on our to-do list and running so fast that even if you say it once, you think you've covered it. But to your point, I completely agree. People need to hear it in different ways, receive it in different ways. And the meaningfulness of that action, it goes beyond measure on what the employee will give you back.

Colette Stallbaumer: It does. Like, don't underestimate, right, that you took that 10 seconds to shoot someone a Teams message, or that you took some time to compliment someone in a meeting about something, or do a shout out, or give little bits of praise. It's like we all need that as humans. We all drink from that well, right? But sometimes we forget and kind of to pause and think about like, oh, that's what fills me up. And so yeah, I need to make sure that I'm giving twice as much or 10x as much as I'm getting.

Mary Killelea: What tips do you have for collaborating with others and getting everyone on the same page? Obviously, you had to get everyone on the same page during the transition. What's your secret to success?

Colette Stallbaumer: Yeah, I think one thing on that that I say to my team a lot, and I'm a big believer in, especially at a, you also as well, a large company, anytime you're navigating the matrix, right, or even when you're not, frankly, if you're at a smaller organization, is stakeholder management, stakeholder management, stakeholder management. I put it on a slide like that, times three. And, you know, if you don't start any new piece of work, really kind of doing what I call like, you know, building a stakeholder map, which doesn't have to be an actual physical thing, by the way, can just be something you build in your mind, or you can write it down, or you can create a slide. But take the time to actually do that work. Think that through up front. Who are the people that need to be on this journey with me? Who do I need to bring along? Who needs to be fully in the kitchen? or in the boat? Who just needs to be informed along the way? Who are the who are the ultimate decision makers? And maybe sometimes those are people not in your immediate purview, right? You have to kind of think outside the rings of where you sit, and think about who those stakeholders are.

Boy, every time putting a little bit of effort into that up front is going to pay so many dividends, especially now with what I see in work where the pace and volume has really increased. I mean, we talk about operating even at the speed of AI at Microsoft, in the new world that we're all in. And, oh, that, you know, that doing that work up front is invaluable. It's going to help you, you know, you talk about being bolder. Like, you cannot be successful at a company getting your bold ideas from A to Z, going back to that, unless you do, unless you have great stakeholder management.

Mary Killelea: I 100% agree. And I can advocate for that recently in a project that I was doing, my manager had actually recommended that I see a couple other people within the stakeholder view that I wasn't counting for. And by including them in, it made the world of difference. So, yes, totally agree. What drives your passion for what you do?

Colette Stallbaumer: Oh, gosh. I know that was a big sigh. I didn't really mean it to be that way. It's just such a big question. I think I get, I feel so privileged that I get to work at this amazing intersection of technology and culture and helping like what makes people tick. You know, I think I'm really motivated to understand how, how we can help people through technology be their greatest, best selves. And that's really what gets me up out of bed every day.

I mean, I think the opportunity to, you know, be able to impact that at scale and give people tools that can empower them to change their life for the better. Whatever that is on any given day, that might be a working mom or a small farmer in some far flung country. Like, you know, technology is so amazing. And when you kind of, when you put those two things together, what humans are able to do and the human spirit and the human ability, no matter how many hard things happen in the world to continue to rise and keep making things better and better. And then putting technology in the hands of people to be able to do that. That's what's exciting to me. That's great.

Mary Killelea: How is Microsoft approaching and leading hybrid work? Cause I know flexibility is really important to people nowadays, especially coming out of COVID. Any best practices?

Colette Stallbaumer: Yeah, you know, we've been, we've been studying this for the past several years. You know, we in early 2020, when the world was obviously, you know, had been thrown into crisis overnight, we'd all been sent home to work. Customers and people were turning to Microsoft to say, what do we do? How do we, how do we keep going? How do we keep the doors open? And I think Teams has been a very powerful digital technology to help sustain people through that period of time and beyond. But we also, we knew and kind of got onto something early on, which we now have published many, many times over the past five years called the Work Trend Index. And we knew we needed to be data driven, that we needed to help customers understand, well, this is what the data is telling us, right? About how people's work patterns are changing rapidly in hybrid work.

And so, for example, just kind of to give a current state of that, that's how we know that today, our heaviest users of Microsoft 365 get 150 emails a day and 250 chat messages and are in and that Teams meetings have gone up three X since 2020. So those are just, those are just a few current statistics, but we started publishing this data and we found there was this huge thirst for data to understand how work was changing. It's how we knew that in early 2021, that flexible work was here to stay, right? Which was something that we declared at the time.

And so, we continue to study, we believe we're studying how work is changing and will continue to change now with AI more intensely than any other organization on the planet and, and more deeply. And I think with hybrid work, again, there is an expectation that companies are enabling flexibility in one form or another, right? I mean, not every company, at Microsoft, our policy is still hybrid or flexible work up to 50% of the time. Many employees take advantage of that. And at the same time, there is more in-person time too. So, we do also find ourselves going into the office more. And I think that in-person time plays a role.

We do something called Team Week, where we bring everyone together once a quarter from wherever, because like a lot of companies, we hired from everywhere during the pandemic. And I have a person on my leadership team who sits in the UK, for example. And so, we bring everyone together once a quarter for Team Week. And when we're having that time together, it's intentional, okay? We're not spending it in teams meetings. We're actually doing things that are building bonds, connections, social connection, doing leadership training, that kind of stuff. We also then during the regular week, we also have team day and that tends to be Thursday. And so we did a bunch of, we created some best practices around, we have a team agreement. It's like, what are the best practices for where you create these centers of gravity, where people will come together? And we saw that happen as we instituted these things. We saw that people would show up on Thursdays and that you would get this sort of intensity around a day or two of the week, where people could get that in-person time.

And our data shows that people will show up for each other. So our data shows from the Work Trend Index that people will come into the office if they know their manager is going to be there, if they might see their senior leadership's going to be there, if their work friends will be there. And so, you know, we surveyed people and something like 80% of all the high responses that were above 80% were all around this concept of people wanting to come in for each other. And so you know, we're continuing to study it. I don't think that anyone has it figured out. I think that, I do think that hybrid work and flexible work and some form of those things are now part of the of the culture of work. And even if you're an organization who is, you know, wants people to be back in the office five days, you still are enabling people to work in new ways than you were in 2019. You know, we're just not going back.

Mary Killelea: Right. No, I agree. Not going back and not putting the genie back in the bottle. But I love what you said there about intentional. When people feel like there's a purpose and a reason and a value to come in versus coming to drive an hour to go sit in a cube to take a phone call.

Colette Stallbaumer: Nobody wants that.

Mary Killelea: Nobody wants that. Let's talk about AI and business and careers. What can women do today to better understand future AI job opportunities and get smart on how AI is driving business impact?

Colette Stallbaumer: Oh, my gosh. You know, I think I'll go right back to that curious mindset, right? Like, go get hands on, like, start to use it, use co-pilot and, and, and experiment, right, experiment and learn. I think there's, there's also LinkedIn, I find to be an incredible resource as well. There's all sorts of courses and classes and things you can take on LinkedIn, and even just being on LinkedIn, surrounded by other professionals to see what they are reading and looking at and learning about when it comes to AI. And then of course, getting hands on with the product. I really do believe that this is this inflection point with large language models and what we're seeing with generative AI is the, is as big of the changes that have happened to work in the past five years, we really believe and I believe that, that this will be even bigger.

And what we started to see the last several years is that some of the things we thought were fixed, right, like always working from an office, or always working from nine to five, those things are not fixed, right? And now, again, I think we're seeing that how we work and the way we work using AI as an assistant, as a companion that can actually be an always available, infinitely patient, incredibly smart assistant that's always waiting there for you. That's what Copilot is. You can delegate tasks to it to save your time so that you can actually focus on the things that you can uniquely do as a person. You know, that is, that is, that is a big change and it's also going to require people forming new habits.

Mary Killelea: So, and I'm glad you covered what Copilot is, because for those that may be living under a rock who may not know.

Colette Stallbaumer: I mean, how could you not know?

Mary Killelea: So, no, thank you. What about AI? I mean, we talk about the artificial intelligence and the way it's getting integrated into our daily lives. What about it excites you most?

Colette Stallbaumer: You know, I think it is this idea of like time back, you know, for the most important things, like some of our best users are, we just did some, published some research and did a study with our early Copilot users. And I'm feeling like I need to, yes, like give a good primer, you know, I think people are largely familiar with ChatGPT. Well, Copilot is, it's more than ChatGPT because it's basically an AI system that understands your entire business, universe of business data, your universe of data at work. Okay. So, imagine an AI powered assistant that understands every document you've ever written, all your emails, your meetings, and what's on your calendar. And what's in your files. And then it starts to understand and know you and your unique style of how you like to say things or write things or format things, or how you sign off your emails even. So, this is kind of the new world of what it can be like to have Copilot with you at work. And with that tangent, I completely forgot your question.

Mary Killelea: Well, I mean, it's about what excites you and I can see the excitement.

Colette Stallbaumer: Yeah, I think that's so, so that's right. So coming back to sort of like, yeah, like what can, what can that do for people, right? How can that give people time back when maybe I had to miss a meeting and I can use Copilot to catch up on it and say, summarize what the discussion was in this meeting, were there any action items for me, was my name mentioned and I can spend minutes doing that, or seconds as opposed to an hour. And I just think that we're in such, we're in, we're in such early innings of how this new world of work will really open up for people.

Mary Killelea: Let's shift a bit and go back more to women and developing their career and their presence, if you will. And on that topic, what advice do you give for women in corporate America building their career, trying to establish or define their presence when they're either presenting or building a reputation within an organization? And maybe it's even a personal brand. What advice do you have for women on the need to really have dedication and, and to be intentional about that?

Colette Stallbaumer: Yeah, okay, so one thing I think is, like, focus on your craft and honing your craft, right? You mentioned personal brand. And I think when you get clear on what it is that you want that to be, and sometimes when you're early in career, you're actually focused on having more experiences across a breadth of things, right, so that you can kind of get more of those experiences under your belt and learn and understand yourself, right? Like, what is it that gives me energy and juice? But once you sort of, once you sort of identify that, right, then really hone your craft. And don't expect all the learning on that to come from your job, right? Like, spend time, going out and doing your own learning and study and reading and talking with other people. And, you know, again, I mentioned LinkedIn earlier, but like, be curious, and focus on honing your craft, because that's going to help you internally, show up and be known for something, right? Like, oh, that Mary, she's the best messaging and positioning person I know, right? And so that's one thing.

Then I think a second thing is, I love the theme of your podcast, like, be bold, don't be afraid to bring usefully wrong ideas to the table. This is a term we use that I use my team at Microsoft, something we call it usefully wrong. Okay, so you're sort of, you're, you're being brave to put an idea out there. And you're, but you're, you're doing it in a way that already signals for people, hey, I might not have this completely right. I might not have it all thought through. I might not have all the pieces correctly, but hear me out, right? I've got an idea. And that's a really safe way for people to like, be brave and put ideas out there. So, that's one I use a lot. And I think it's fun to watch it sort of, it becomes sort of viral, like I love, you know, it gives people permission. It's like, oh, she did that. No, I can share my usefully wrong idea that maybe I might not have shared, right? I might've just held it in.

You know, I think another thing is how you do what you do is important is as important as what you do. I mean, we talked about that a little bit at the top of the show. How did you make people feel, right? Those, you know, give, give each other grace, give each other kindness. And then I think pay attention to what gives you energy, look for those patterns in yourself. So those are a few things.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. And you kind of answered this in the last question, but I'm going to just ask it straight up. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Colette Stallbaumer: To be bolder to me means believing, being confident in what you know, and having a deep belief that a great idea can come from anywhere. Okay. And so really, really believe in that and don't be afraid to put your ideas out there. And I have to say, I really learned that this was reinforced for me during the time I worked in Satya Nadella's office. I saw that in action with him. He really believes that deeply that a great idea can come from anywhere. And I think that he instilled that in me as well. I mean, it was instilled before that, but I'm just saying he was very always, it never mattered, like, what the level of the person was, or, like, hierarchy and those kinds of things. We all, I think, operate inside organizations inside a marketplace of ideas. And you can't get your idea will never, you'll never get your idea from A to Z, from something that's a seed to full blown execution, like the Work Trend Index, which we could have thought was a crazy idea and probably did at the time we were birthing it. If you don't start, take the first step of putting it out there.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, I love that.

Colette Stallbaumer: You know, and then you got to get kind of comfortable, right? With a little bit of rejection and a little bit of like keep taking the shot, keep taking the shot.

Mary Killelea: As an advocate for women in tech, what do you think we collectively can do to move the needle on retention of women in tech?

Colette Stallbaumer: I think creating space for lots of different ways of being in the workforce. Okay, so it kind of goes back to flexible work. But if I've got someone on my team who I know is a mother of small children, and she says she's got to go because it's pickup time or whatever. Or it's like create space for that.

Actually, I'm remembering this is a great story. A great anecdote. So there, there is a woman on my team recently who actually said to me that she felt like she crossed a new career milestone because she was catching vomit in one hand while presenting slides to the CMO on the other. When I was getting vomit in one minute and presenting to the CMO the next on a call. I mean, that's motherhood, right? That's that is being a woman in the workforce. That's just real.

And so, I think supporting each other and being able to laugh and being able to hold each other up, in those moments and creating space for all those different permutations and make it acceptable to talk about, right? I think that that's a good thing that's come out of flexible work the past few years is I do think there's a lot more permission for people to say, I have to be at this, I'm going to go pick up my kid from school, or I'm going to go to this play, or I'm sorry, I'm not going to, you know, I'm going to miss that meeting. And that's where I do get excited about Copilot, right? Because it gives people more choices and more different ways to participate. I think we have to move away from a culture solely based on being present at the moment and presenteeism.

Mary Killelea: Yes, I wish I would have had Copilot a few years back when I was raising my kids. Right? What about good business development resources? Are there any that you recommend, either podcasts or books or things on becoming an organizational leader?

Colette Stallbaumer: Oh, you know, Michael Gervais has a new book out. It's fantastic. And I'm gonna blank on the name of it. I don't know if I'm gonna be fast enough to look it up. Hold on.

Mary Killelea: We'll hold. We'll wait.

Colette Stallbaumer: Okay, one moment. Okay. So Michael Gervais has a fantastic new book out called The First Rule of Mastery. Stop worrying about what people think of you. And he talks about this concept of, of FOPO, right? We've all heard of FOMO. He talks about FOPO, fear of people's opinions. And he is encouraging all of us to set that aside. And I think the more we can all do that. Now, obviously, we all in a corporate structure, you know, there is a degree to which people have to care about that. But I think the seat, the spirit of what you know, the heart of what he's trying to say and communicate is a really important valuable message for everyone to hear.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's great. What would you tell your 20 year old self?

Colette Stallbaumer: You know, I think it might surprise you and your listeners to hear it's like, I think I've, I've struggled many times throughout my career to be confident in myself. And so I think that is the kindest advice I could give myself, my younger self, and probably advice that I still give myself every day. And so I don't think that advice has an age, right? I think it's so important that especially as women, that we really, that we really tell ourselves that and believe in it. I think it's somewhat true that women have a tendency to be harder on themselves when it comes to that. We’re not as known for being overly confident, let's say.

Mary Killelea: Right. Well, you know, I really appreciate your transparency and vulnerability in sharing that. Because I do think people see successful women like yourself who have achieved certain level of status and feel like either you didn't experience it, you don't deal with it, and how can they possibly get to where you are? So that's wonderful for you to share that.

Colette Stallbaumer: No, absolutely.

Mary Killelea: How do you personally protect yourself and avoid burnout?

Colette Stallbaumer: Well, that's a tough one. That may be the toughest question you've asked. I think it's small things, right? It's like, I take a Pilates class every Sunday, and I'm really committed to that. And my kids know if they get in the way of mom's Pilates class, there's going to be something to pay, so I think it's that it's keeping those small commitments to yourself. I sometimes go on, I go on walks with my daughter, that 20 minutes, it's those kinds of things. Eating healthy, trying to make sure I get sleep, investing in my sleep. I mean, honestly, there's no silver bullet, I think it's small little habits and rituals and keeping commitments to oneself. That sort of keep us all in that, in centered, and able to handle what comes.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. Yeah. Okay, so now we're gonna have a little fun. This is this is the fun section before I wrap it up and say thank you for being here. And this is just to get people to know you a little better. First comes mind, winter or summer?

Colette Stallbaumer: Winter.

Mary Killelea: Comedy or drama?

Colette Stallbaumer: Drama.

Mary Killelea: Beach or the mountains?

Colette Stallbaumer: Mountains.

Mary Killelea: Cats or dogs?

Colette Stallbaumer: Dogs.

Mary Killelea: Coffee or tea?

Colette Stallbaumer: Definitely coffee. I don't start my day without it. It's another ritual. It's another ritual.

Mary Killelea: Pasta or pizza?

Colette Stallbaumer: Pasta.

Mary Killelea: All right, we're here. We're done. It has been awesome. I so appreciate you coming on the show and sharing your journey and just even talking about your role and enlightening younger women to be like you.

Colette Stallbaumer: Oh, well, I hope I hope that's I think the greatest compliment for all of us, right? If we can be an example to others. So, to all the women out there, don't give up on your dreams. Right? Like I am from I'm a I'm a I'm from a very small town from humble beginnings. And, you know, I think dream big and be bold.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at to be bolder.com. That's the number two little be bolder.com.