Career Growth Advice from Andrea Lowery, Event Operations Leader | Career Tips for Women in Event Operations

2B Bolder Podcast – Episode 80
Featuring Andrea Lowery, with Augmented World Expo

Episode Title: #80 Career Podcast Featuring Andrea Lowery, Head of Operations for Augmented World Expo : Women In Business

Host: Mary Killelea
Guest: Andrea Lowery



Mary Killelea (Host): Hi there. My name is Mary Killelea. Welcome to the To Be Bolder podcast, providing career insights for the next generation of women in business and tech. To Be Bolder was created out of my love for technology and marketing, my desire to bring together like-minded women, and my hope to be a great role model and source of inspiration for my two girls and other young women like you. Encouraging you guys to show up and to be bolder and to know that anything you guys dream of, it's totally possible. So, sit back, relax, and enjoy the conversation.

Hi there. Today's guest is a woman I've had the pleasure of knowing for many years, and I have admired her ability to manage a successful career, making time to volunteer, and balance motherhood. Andrea Lowery serves as the head of operations for Augmented World Expo, the world's leading augmented virtual and mixed reality community. Andrea oversees the operations team in the production and logistics for Augmented World Expo, in-person events in the US and Europe, and online events including 30 plus international AWE night meetup chapters, and the AWE Academy educational series. Prior to joining AWE XR full-time in 2021, Andrea was the co-founder and vice president of operations for Prospera Events, producer of InnoTech, the Technology and Innovation Conference, and ShareCloud Summit events. In addition to event management and logistics for a portfolio of clients, as a small business owner for over 15 years, she had the opportunity to produce over 100 events in the US and internationally, honing her skills as a contract negotiator, event producer, and team leader with finance, accounting, and HR thrown into the mix.

When Andrea is not working, she enjoys traveling the world. Mexico is one of her favorite and most often destinations. Stand-up paddle boarding, reading, gardening, and house projects, exploring new restaurants, and hanging out with her adult children. Andrea, it's lovely to have you here. Thanks for joining.

Andrea Lowery (Guest): Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm really excited. Thank you for taking the time to have this conversation. I love what I do, and I'm happy to talk about it.

Mary Killelea: Awesome. Okay, so you graduated with a management degree from Sonoma State University. That makes me think that you've always wanted to be in event space. Is that true statement?

Andrea Lowery: It is not a true statement, although I should have seen the writing on the wall. From a young age, I was very involved with throwing parties, birthday parties. If neighbors or friends were having a party, I was there even doing coat check or serving drinks or cleaning up. Anything to be involved with that was always part of my blood. Then in high school, I was very involved with my youth group. I became the president of the youth group, and we did a lot of fundraising events. We did a comedy night where people had to buy tickets to register. I really should have seen it, but I went to Sonoma State University with the intention of being an elementary school teacher. I studied that for two years. After two years, I said, this is not for me. I need a change. I need structure. I need deadlines. Liberal arts was way too free and loose. I needed operations in my world, and so I ended up getting a management degree.

Mary Killelea: That is so important, I think, for listeners to recognize, to know what you're good at, what feels right. If boundaries and timelines make you happy, then draw yourself to work and monetization and pay that suits your talents well.

Andrea Lowery: Yeah, for sure. It's such a joy now, now, 35, 40 years later, that I am doing something that I didn't even know was a job. If someone had told me in high school that all the work I've been doing my entire life was an actual job or a career, I don't think I would have believed it. I wasn't aware of it. For me to be able to do this job that I really adore and I've had some success with and support my family and have it be financially rewarding as well is really important. It's important to know that the things you like to do and are fun to you, you can make money doing.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, that's awesome. Being the head of operations for the Augmented World Expo, tell us about your roles and responsibility, even what Augmented World Expo is.

Andrea Lowery: Yeah, that's a great question. Augmented World Expo is an event, a series of events rather. We do events in the United States, in Europe, in Asia. We had one in Tel Aviv before COVID. We're working on bringing that one back to life, but it's on hold at the moment. It is a community of people. These are events for this community of people that are involved, whether they work in augmented, virtual, and mixed reality, whether they're interested in it, whether they're studying it in school, some are school professors. I mean, mixed reality, augmented and virtual reality is something that people can now study in college. When we started this event in 2010, and we'll get into that a little bit later, no one knew what this was. Nobody knew. And now I think a lot of us are aware, there are Snapchat filters, there are wine bottles that come to life if you hold your phone up to it. It's really amazing. And it's been very cool for me to be involved in this community of creative people because I'm very deadline, cut and dry, produce the event, but not so much the creative. I'm very grateful to work with people who are good at that, but I still get exposed to it.

Mary Killelea: Right. So tell us as the head of operations, what are some of the roles and responsibilities that you have?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah, great question. So as head of operations, I first of all need to give a shout out to my incredible team, incredible team of very strong women. We have guys on our team too, but not so much in operations. So, what we do, let's say you're going to a trade show, you go to a Christmas fair, you go to someplace where you're looking at exhibits and booths. Nobody really thinks about the concessions or the people that make the badges or how the parking is configured or how the booths are going to be set up in the building. How long is it going to take to set them up? How many forklifts do we need? No one cares about that. You just expect it. You go to a show and you want it to be that it's easy to park, it's easy to get your badge, and it's easy. We're the ones that magically make it easy, except it's not so magical. It's a lot of hard work. It's a lot of teamwork. It's a lot of deadlines. It's a lot of proofreading. It's a lot of things that we love. I mean, we like this kind of thing. We like to look at contracts. We like to talk with the vendors and get them excited about producing an exciting event and because they can make money this way as well. The more successful our events are, the more successful the community becomes.

Mary Killelea: So you talk about operations and I think for listeners, when you think of events, you're not even sure of everything that goes into it, just like you said. You make it look easy. We don't know what happens and what roles there are. What other type of roles are there to pull an event together?

Andrea Lowery: I'm always so proud of our team because when we do these events, for example, I'll use the one in California. It's the longest standing event that we do. It's the biggest one. So this year we're expecting 6,000 participants, 300 plus exhibitors in 100,000 square feet. That's really, really big. Most people's houses are, I don't know, 1,500 to 2,000 square feet. So that's, it's big. So there are over 400 speakers. So, it's a lot of wrangling of humans. I've got people on my team that manage the exhibit portion. So, they, as exhibitors and sponsors come on and say that they are committed to AWE, Megan picks up the pieces and says, all right, this is how you do it. This is where you ship your materials. This is what time you can set up. This is how many passes you have. When they call her and ask her how long a six foot table is, she patiently and calmly explains how long a six foot table is. And that seems like a strange question, but we have people who are international participants. They work in meters. They don't work in feet. So yes, of course, we all have Google, but they want the human touch. And so, Megan will answer that question all day long as often as needed.

And then I have another person on my team named Antigone. She manages all of the food and beverage. So of course, when you go to an event, there are cocktail parties, there are happy hours, there are breakfasts, there are coffee services that are sponsored by certain people. And she works with our food and beverage vendors on all of those things. She also manages security, some of the extraneous type of vendors. She's had the extreme joy of sourcing port-a-potties because we're going to be doing an outdoor party this time. So whatever the event needs, we do. Then Maria, who's been with me for a long time, does all of the registration. So she manages registration. So when people write to her and say, I bought my ticket for a three day, but I meant to buy it for a two day and I want to bring my friend and I forgot to use my discount code, Maria is the one that will take care of all of that.

Mary Killelea: I love the way you told that. That makes so much sense. Okay. So you mentioned part of your role was contract negotiating. Tell me more. One, negotiating, I think makes some people cringe. So what are some tips and advice for contract negotiation?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah. I love contract negotiation. I think it's fun because first of all, when you're entering into a contract, whatever it is, make sure you know what you want out of it, whether it's realistic or not. What are you really hoping for? And a lot of times I know the things my boss is asking me to negotiate for.

Mary Killelea: Yeah.

Andrea Lowery: It's pie in the sky. He's a big thinker. He's a big dreamer, but if he doesn't push me, if he doesn't ask me for all of these things, maybe we get 80% of it. And that's great. And that's great. So let's shoot for the moon. Know what you want in a perfect world. If money weren't a challenge, if time constraints weren't a challenge, what do you want? What do you want out of this relationship? And I think honesty is big. I think in contract negotiation, a lot of people feel like it's a game, like, oh, I have to be sneaky and I don't want to show my cards and it's like a poker game. I don't like to approach it that way. And I don't think it's very successful. I much prefer to be forthcoming and say, this is what I can bring to the table. This is what I can give to you. This is my budget. You know, how can we work around some of these things? This is what we've done in the past. These are things we want to improve. Are we even the right match? Are we the right partners to do this? It's okay to say no to somebody when you're negotiating with them. If they bring up something and you don't like what they're saying, or you don't like that approach, you don't have to work with them. You know, you can move on and find a, you can date somebody else. It's okay. So I think being A, know what you want and B, clearly communicate that and be honest with people. Don't, you don't have to hold things back.

Mary Killelea: Great advice. You mentioned, not even complexities, but I'm sure there are, and I'm going to ask you if there are. What are some of the complexities to working outside the United States when planning an event?

Andrea Lowery: I have to tell you, I'll be completely honest. The first time I did an outside of the country event, I was terrified. It was in Berlin. I did two shows in one week. They were hotel shows, very small, like 50 people. So, it wasn't anything like what I do in California. It was very manageable. I could do it with my eyes closed in my sleep in the US. But I was like, I don't speak German. I don't know anything about their currency. Like, okay, people in Europe or other places speak English, and if they don't, then you hire an interpreter. There are ways to get around all of these things. And the rest of the world pretty much functions the way that we do. It's just a lot of math. It's a lot more math than I thought. A lot more conversion, well, six feet. How long is six feet in meters? You know, things like that. So it turned out to be more math than scary.

Mary Killelea: And that's great. And I'm sure the second time you did it was easier than the first time, and it should pull you back from doing it. Yeah, that's amazing.

Andrea Lowery: Absolutely. But then you change countries and things do change. So, for example, we were in Germany for a long time. We ended up staying in Germany, and then Augmented World Expo actually went to Germany, too. So, I did that event there for three years in Munich. It was great. German efficiency is a thing of beauty for an operations person. It's just wonderful. Not always maybe the friendliest, but they get things done and it's spot on. Nothing is missed. Then COVID happened, and there was some really big transitions that I'm sure we'll talk about in a little bit. But after COVID, we decided, you know, it's time to try something different and bring the EU event back. Did a survey of our participants. Everybody wanted Portugal. Portugal was the place. So we did.

Mary Killelea: I thought it's cool that you surveyed your attendees to get their pulse, because I think either people survey people and don't listen to the survey results, or they don't stop to think, hey, let's ask our attendees what they really think. What advice do you have for people getting feedback?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah, well, I mean, you're right. Sometimes we take surveys afterwards and we always hear the same thing. There wasn't enough coffee. You know, the lines were too long in registration. I mean, these are things that there's only so much space in the venue that we have presently. We are bursting at the seams and we're going to make an announcement later this year about that, but I can't really talk about that at the moment. But the lines are going to be long because the event is growing and there's only so much equipment that we can put in. So, sometimes we do take surveys and then we're like, yeah, yeah, we've heard all that before and we're doing the best we can. But this one was important. I mean, it was critical. Like, we needed to know, do people want to stay in Germany? Because moving to another country is a big deal. You've got to get a license in that country. You've got to get a VAT number, which is like a tax number in each country. So now we have VAT numbers in multiple countries and I'm working on getting one for Austria.

So, yeah, I mean, it's really been an interesting thing because we have to be not afraid of the work. Like if the answers that the people are giving us, we don't like because, oh, they all want to go to somewhere that's really difficult to work, but we don't want to do that. Do we really listen to them? If you don't want to listen to them, don't ask for their opinion.

Mary Killelea: True, right. No, I think that's what you want anyway. It sounds like you've gone to amazing places. I assume that's one of the perks, if you will. And do you make time to like get a little personal pleasure out of it?

Andrea Lowery: Only recently. Only recently. So and I have traveled my whole career. My whole career I've traveled. I've either been moving all over the place when I started my career, I was in the hotel business, and I worked for a hotel company that wanted me to go to hotels that were struggling and help them with their sales. But that meant every six months, once the help was done, then I would move to somewhere else. So, I moved up and down the West Coast a lot. And then when I got to Portland, I thought, I really would like to get my haircut by the same person two times in a row. And I liked it here. I liked it here. So, I stayed here. And then I was recruited by this trade show company. And that's when the traveling really started. And I was traveling all the time, only domestically. So, some of the destinations have not been super exotic. I've been to Indianapolis and Detroit and Rochester. I've also been to Savannah, Georgia and all over Florida. And I mean, I've been to almost every state. So, it's been wonderful. However, early in my career, well, midway through my career, I had kids. And so there was no staying after. It was like, oh, I need to be home. There's a ballet performance or there's a baseball game or I need to be on the next flight out of here as soon as the last box is packed. But now, now that they're older, just for the last two years, I have made a point of staying after and experiencing these other countries, which has been incredible.

Mary Killelea: That's fantastic. You also touched on when things don't go as planned. What advice do you have for people keeping their cool and staying level headed?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah, some of it I think is nature. And some of it can be learned. But I think some of it is really a personality trait. So I think I'm fortunate to be blessed with an extreme level of patience. Sometimes it doesn't work to my benefit. Sometimes I let things go too long because I'm too patient. And it's better for people to get angry and be like, no, it shouldn't be this way. When things don't go well, though, and especially if you're on site, and it's a show, I mean, it is a show and it's a performance. So, you can't lose your mind in the middle of the lobby and start screaming at people. You have to stay calm. And you have to keep your cool and look at your options and rely on your team. And take a pause. It's okay. If somebody is upset about something, it's great to hear them out. Make sure that they feel heard. Ask for some grace. Ask for a few moments. I hear what you're saying. I need 15 minutes. Can we meet back here in 15 minutes? And then you take that 15 minutes to meet with your team, meet with the vendors, meet with whoever is going to help you solve this problem. Then when you meet with them again in 15 minutes, you've got a couple of solutions for them to choose from. So I would say, do your best to stay calm. And if you can't stay calm, go on the loading dock and cry it out. Nobody's back on the loading dock. Nobody will see you. Many tears have been shed on the loading dock.

Mary Killelea: These are such good pieces of advice. There's so many different types of events. Talk about the differences and why you were attracted to say the tech space.

Andrea Lowery: Yeah, I wish I could say that the tech space was my calling. I think it found me. I was recruited away from the hotel industry by a company that did technology events. And then that was just what I got involved in. Once I did it, I was hooked, and I really enjoyed the technology. I enjoyed that it wasn't... I knew that social events weren't so much for me, that I do have good patience, but I don't have the emotional connection with brides or with social functions or with people who are doing nonprofit fundraising. I'm not a hand holder. I like to get things done. So corporate, business, tech, it just played to what I really enjoyed anyway. And then that company was bought and sold a number of times at the same time that I got pregnant with my first child. And so I left to have her and then my husband at the time, we decided, they've left this company that we worked for, that's where we met. This company that we worked for has left markets that we know a lot of people. We can do this ourselves. And we did do it ourselves for a long time.

Mary Killelea: That's a great transition. So talk about the work that you did with Prospera and what it was like to be a business owner.

Andrea Lowery: Well, I'll tell you in the beginning and I'll give all props to Sean, to my ex-husband, because he really wanted to do this. He was like, we can do this. I do the sales, you do the operations. We're like a team. And if we need other people, we can hire them. I'm like, no, I'm a corporate person. I need benefits. I need two weeks’ vacation. I need structure. Like, no. And then he found somebody else. He went into business with another guy that we had worked with and they were killing it, but they were both salespeople. And they're like, please, please come help us. We can't do this. We're doing all the sales, but we don't know anything about sending invoices. We're drowning over here. And I did. And I said, all right, I'm not scared anymore. I see that you guys are selling. And then that's what we did.

And then the other guy went on to do something else and we stayed with it for 15 years. We hired lots of people. I learned a ton about human resources. I taught myself QuickBooks. I still got to do all of the operational things for our events, because we were doing four events a year that were technology events in Texas and Oklahoma, which was the region that he had been selling in. So, he had all those contacts and it was fun. I mean, it was hard. It was a lot of late nights. I didn't get two weeks’ vacation anymore. Nobody got two weeks’ vacation anymore, but we were having a good time, and we were making money and keeping the relationships alive with these customers we had known for so long. And it was a blast. We had a really good time.

Mary Killelea: What did you learn about yourself during that?

Andrea Lowery: Gosh, I would say I've learned so many things, not to be scared. I think I was second guessing myself and I wrote that as we're going to get into that in a little bit, but I spent way too much time in my early career, doubting myself, second guessing myself, thinking I couldn't, thinking, no, that's too hard. Nothing is too hard. Nothing. We can do anything. And if we don't want to do it or we can't do it, it's absolutely okay to say, yeah, that's not my thing. I'll find somebody that will help us, but I don't want to do that or I can't do that. I think I felt like if I was being challenged to do something new, immediately I had to do it perfectly.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Andrea Lowery: And I feel like that's the case for many, many women, many people, people, not just women, but especially women.

Mary Killelea: Yeah, no, I totally agree. And that's such an empowering realization when you realize you don't have to be perfect at everything and it shouldn't allow you to hold yourself back from moving forward and trying new things.

Andrea Lowery: Absolutely. So if listeners, if you don't hear anything else today, hear that, hear that because it took, I know it took me a long time to get there. Yeah. And if you can hear it now and try and incorporate it into your life sooner, it will be a great benefit.

Mary Killelea: So was it hard to transition from being your own business owner to working for someone else? I mean, in what you're doing today?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah. Yes, it was. I think, you know, as much as I resisted it in the beginning of having our own business by the time it ended and it ended because of COVID, we chose within our own business. We did not want to do online events. That wasn't something that we were curious about or interested in and we didn't feel like our audience wanted that. So really our, the InnoTech events came to an absolute halt. We were on unemployment. I mean, it was, it was not great. My gardening game was great. I took up running. That was great, but financially it wasn't great.

In the meantime, this customer, Ori, that I had been working with since 2010 on the augmented events, they were a contract of ours. So, I guess I should backtrack a bit and explain. We not only did our own InnoTech events, but we took on contracts or other companies that had ideas of what they wanted their shows to be, but they didn't know how to do them operationally. So, I had been helping him operationally since 2010. And he said, he came to me and said, uh, do you, I'm starting something new and different. Do you want to be my head of operations? And I'm like, maybe, he said, but it means you wouldn't own Prospera anymore. Like you wouldn't be working in that. You would work for me. And I was like, yeah, I need to do it. I need to do it. And it was, I mean, it's been a great decision. The first year was like working at a startup. Every, every day was a hair on fire emergency. Every day was, oh, we don't have this kind of insurance or we need that. Or we don't, now we're doing all this stuff online and we're learning how to do things online. And now we need to hire these people. Oh, well, that person didn't work out. Okay. Now we need to hire somebody else. Now I need you to negotiate this contract. Okay. Now COVID it's not a thing anymore. Now we're going to do an event in real life. It was, it was total chaos, which normally I love. And I, we got through it. We got through it.

Mary Killelea: So it's hard.

Andrea Lowery: It's hard. I lost part of my identity.

Mary Killelea: Oh, interesting. Yeah. Yeah. That's so interesting. Um, but the fact that people have come to you throughout your career to recruit you is such a testament of your reputation and your personal brand and the excellent work that you do. I don't know if people recognize or realize like everything you do is making that lasting impression and could be the door opener for another opportunity.

Andrea Lowery: Absolutely. And you never ever know where it's coming from. And it's hard. There are going to be days where you really want to burn some bridges. You want to light them on fire because there are people who make you mad. There are people who promised you things and they're not following through. There are people who told you they were going to make their payment and they don't make their payment and you want to do evil things to them. Try to take the high road. It's a lonely place, but it's the right place and it will serve you well in the long run. If you want to be mad, have a glass of wine and tell your girlfriends about it. Don't burn bridges because you don't know. I can tell you the event industry seems large. It's not, you are going to run into the same people again and again.

Mary Killelea: That is such a good point because really the world isn't as big as it seems. Once you get into an industry, whether it was like radio, when I was in radio, you have this network and it just gets smaller. But I just think that's so important to recognize.

Andrea Lowery: Well, and those kinds of personality traits do matter. I mean, I just went through a hiring process and we interviewed fantastic candidates. And in fact, one of the candidates was so fantastic that he wasn't the right fit for this job, for the job I was hiring for, but he is going to come to the event in California as a contractor for us because his skills are in stage management. So, when the interview process was over and we had hired someone else, I called him and said, of course, I'm sorry that you didn't get the job, but I don't want to lose touch with you because I think you have some skills. If you're open to this, it's a contract job. You would be on the road for 10 days. We would pay you for your travel time. And this is the job. You basically come to the event, you manage our main stage, you make sure the speakers have their microphones on and get on and off stage, that the furniture, if we have a panel, there are three chairs up there. If it's one person, it's one chair. You do all of that. And he is so excited. You never know. Maybe that opportunity isn't the right one, but there could be something else.

Mary Killelea: When you interview people, what kind of qualities do you look for besides the direct experience?

Andrea Lowery: Well, experience is good, but if a person I'm interviewing talks about making lists, loving to check things off, I mean, there are definitely, we have a type. I mean, it's like online dating and we operations people, we have a type. And if you are the kind of person that loves that sort of harnessing of details and chaos, and it doesn't make you feel like you're drowning, it makes you feel energized and excited. Then those are the kinds of things I look for. If someone says to me on an interview, Oh, you know, I had two things to do at the same time, and I had to take a 10 minute break and that's probably, it's not going to be a great fit. It's just not, and they're not going to be happy. They won't be happy doing this because this is, it's for real chaos a lot.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. What's the best piece of business advice you've ever received?

Andrea Lowery: Best piece of business advice. Let me think about this for a moment. I've been given a lot of really good business advice. I've been really lucky. I would say, trust your gut. Don't, don't second guess yourself. I mean, do your homework, be prepared. Your instincts are valid. Follow them.

Mary Killelea: Have you had mentors over the years? And if so, how did you establish those relationships?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah. Yeah, I have. So very early on in my career, I, I don't think I realized this at the time, but my two first bosses in the hotel industry were women. And I don't, I'm pretty sure I did not acknowledge this when I was 23, 24, but seeing them in leadership roles, they were managing the department. I was reporting to them. I was like, I can do that. Like, I want to do that. They're, they're bad-ass women. Like they're in charge. They go to, they go to the big team meetings. Like they go to the meetings with the general manager. I want to be like that. And since then I, I've been like that and it's been really cool.

I also was really fortunate to work for two men who are incredibly smart, savvy business people. When I worked for the trade show company that I started with. And so I'm really happy for them. Just, they forced me to dig deeper into financials and understanding budgeting and forecasting and, and the financial side of running a business. Cause all the operations stuff is, is very fun, but there's a very real and important financial aspect that you've got to be savvy about. And they, I learned that from them. And now my mentors, without a doubt, my boss, Ori, he's incredibly creative and he is a leader in the world, in the XR industry. So, to be able to work and report directly and have a relationship with him and his family, and it just feels like a really amazing opportunity. And I feel like I try probably not always successful, but I try to learn something from everyone that I'm working with. And sometimes it's learning what you don't want. You watch people lose their minds over something small and you're like, yep, I don't want to do that. So it's not always people modeling the way you absolutely want to be. There's plenty of bad behavior to remind you, you don't want to be that way.

Mary Killelea: Yeah. In regards to your career, what would you tell your 20 year old self?

Andrea Lowery: Slow down, breathe, take a pause, think through things, let people know that you need a moment to think and give a good answer. You don't have to do everything on the fly. I like doing some things on the fly, but especially if you've got a huge decision to make, it's, it's okay to ask for what you need. It's okay to say, I don't know right now. I need 30 minutes. I need two days. And then make sure you do exactly what you said you were going to do. If you said you need two days in two days, you better be back on their phone or back in their inbox.

Mary Killelea: Great advice.

Andrea Lowery: That's showing them that you set healthy boundaries for yourself. You know what you need and you clearly communicate and follow through. That's giving them a lot of great information about you.

Mary Killelea: I love that. What does to be bolder mean to you?

Andrea Lowery: I think it means taking calculated chances. Don't be afraid to make the wrong move and get stuck not moving at all. I don't know if you've ever felt that way where you just have something you've got to do. You don't know, do I do this one? Do I do that one? And then you do nothing.

Mary Killelea: Right.

Andrea Lowery: You're better off doing the wrong thing and having some movement, learning from it, and then correcting. So take chances. Don't be afraid. Don't be scared. There are lots of people to support you. There are lots of mentors out there that don't know that they're mentors, but should be. Tons of support. Learn from every possible person, your colleagues, your friends, your kids, read podcasts, webinars, conferences, just everywhere you can take some nugget of wisdom.

Mary Killelea: So Andrea, how for those listening, how can listeners tip toe or test out or learn about this industry?

Andrea Lowery: Yeah. So I'll back up for a little bit and say, I feel really fortunate that I started my career in the hospitality industry as a hotel sales manager. So, I was exposed very early on to all aspects of hotel management, rooms, food and beverage, conventions, meetings, weddings, contract negotiation with big companies. So, I would say this volunteer for some events. Events are always looking for capable, reliable volunteers that you can volunteer for four hours. You can volunteer for three days, whatever works for you. They would love to have you, see if you like it. Are you excited? Are you energized by the lines of registration on the first day? Do you like thinking on your feet? Do you enjoy problem solving and customer service? I would also say, and this is especially for college students, find an internship if you can, or look for an internship, create an internship at a local hotel, a catering company, an event planning organization, even a restaurant. So, you can get a feel for what it's like, even if it's an unpaid position for 30 days, you will know it'll give you a ton of valuable insight and you will know if you are inspired or if it's like a hell no, not for me, I need to run for the hills. You'll know.

Mary Killelea: That's awesome. Oh my God, Andrea, it has been such a joy. Thank you for being here, sharing your story. Really, really good advice and tips that you shared.

Andrea Lowery: Thank you. Thank you for listening. It's been fun.

Mary Killelea: Thanks for listening to the episode today. It was really fun chatting with my guests. If you liked our show, please like it and share it with your friends. If you want to learn what we're up to, please go check out our website at 2bbolder.com. That's the number two, little b, bolder.com.